I’m going to start HGH and would like opinions on the following please;
Has anyone pinned test and GH in the same injection? I’ve done BPC157 with test and HCG with test before but a bit worried in case the oil could damage the GH in some way? (I’d read on excelmale about combining T and HCG).
Not too worried about jabbing myself but rather trying to limit the amount of single use plastic I’ll be using.
I thought this but saw a lot of info on Excelmale where Nelson talks about it. I mixed test and HCG and think there was no major issue (I.e. my nad’s got bigger, I’d post a picture but don’t have a big enough shoe).
As two high molecular weight proteins, no damage to hCG/hGH by physically mingling with the oily test. If you think about the logistics you should pull from hGH vial first then test vial second to minimize contamination to hGH vial. Both vials have preservatives so a minor consideration.
If you think about recommended hGH injection protocol it is SQ to the abdomen but lots of studies show minimum difference SQ vs IM. Abdomen does show better AUC than thigh although I would have to dig in to understand that finding.
Long story short you can combine the two but be careful not to cavitate the hGH while drawing the test into same syringe. Purist would use two insulins pins but overkill. Good luck.
PS: putting the oil with the water will have minimal inpact on hGH absorption rate. Think about surface area created when you inject the two phase bolus. No interaction. Dig into absorption physics if you are interested and the role of the lymphatic system.
Is there any reason (aside from cavitation) that we shouldn’t mix oil and water based compounds in syringes? I’ve been mixing L-Carnitine (water based) with my Test C (GSO) for like 2 months now and didn’t notice a difference.
Just be gentle with the hGH once reconstituted. A little bedtime reading. You can see cavitation if you pull back too fast on the plunger. No worries with the test but hGH you may lose some potency. Same for hCG.
I “read” the above paper (well, I skimmed abstract, discussion and results, same as most forum “scientists” …)
Regarding causing cavitation when pulling back the plunger, I’m guessing if the vial doesn’t have a similar pressure inside to out then this will cause damage even if done slowly? I.e. not injecting some air into the vial before drawing back? I also surmise that putting too much air into the vial before drawing back could cause too much pressure therefore leading to damage to the protein?
Is causing a vacuum or alternatively too high a pressure going to cause damage to the product? I’ll go out on a limb and say yes if either of these are too extreme or prolonged?
The issue I was raising with (1) drawing hCG/hGH then (2) test ester in same syringe may be termed a “passenger effect”. You have gone to the trouble of delicately drawing the hCG/hGH and now need to add air to the test vial and draw the test. When I draw hCG I add air to the vial then slowly draw out the hCG. The further back you pull the plunger the larger the pressure differential you create between the vial contents and the syringe space. You’ll notice this when you draw as you pull the plunger back far you will create a jet of hCG into the syringe and that turbulent flow will create bubbles. Those bubbles come from the dissolved air in the liquid from the vial. When that liquid hits the vacuum of the syringe, the air wants to come out of solution (Henry’s law for those keeping track) Also those small bubbles can expand every time you draw back the plunger to add in a second medication. When those bubbles collapse they create “shear” forces that can damage the protein
Hence, I draw hCG the same way I reconstitute it. Very gently addition of bacteriostatic water to the powder to avoid any bubbles. Think of it as reversibility vs irreversibility. The slower you go the less bubble effect you have. The penalty of course is time.
When I draw hCG I pull back slowly and let the hCG flow in a gentle (hopefully laminar flow) pattern that minimizes any harsh mixing and bubbles. Try this out for yourself.
So with all that said perhaps the better option is to fill the test first then the hCG/hCG second if you only want to use one insulin pin and aren’t worried about contaminating the water-based vial. That way you minimize any bubble/shear history for the protein. All of my comments were geared toward minimizing any bubble “shock” to the protein. I would not worry about overpressurizing your hCG/hGH when you add air to the vial. No worries there.
All of this is in the weeds and probably minimal impact at best unless you are really beating on your hGH vial and shaking it. I haven’t quantified the impact of effects above but it would make for a fun analysis. But the paper I shared above demonstrates the concept is not entire theoretical.
Also, none of this applicable to the test solution where we are used to pulling that plunger back hard and trying to vial that syringe as quick as possible. Hence, the caution when trying to fill a syringe with two different liquids that possess very different sensitivity.
EDIT: digging in a little more…specific surface area is a critical determinant and so all of this is probably way too much detail but great you are trying to be careful. You don’t want to waste that precious HGH.
Yes, I’d planned (as I did with hCG) to draw up the test then the hGH. The “method” would be.
I would be mixing test/hCG twice a week with one extra hGH injection in between (Probably Monday and Friday mix, just hGH on a Wednesday.)
On the mix days I wouldn’t push air into the hGH vial to lessen chance of contamination, but
on the Wednesday I would inject a larger amount of air (if drawing 4iu worth, inject 10iu worth?) so on the other days the pressure would start to equalize.
The amounts are fluid as I’ve seen it where a vial is obviously too pressurized and the contents want to rush out (in this case hCH) and of course the opposite when drawing becomes a pain because of the vacuum.
And I honestly tried to read, even if not actually not understanding the linked paper, but it beat me back and I went back to cowering in my corner of ignorance.
But please keep them coming as every soo often something gets through
Sounds like a plan. My takeaway is draw the hCG/hGH slow and you don’t need a lot of air in the vial to draw quickly. Ripping back the plunger and drawing as fast as you can probably ain’t the end of the world but does potentially lead to some protein aggregation and minor to miniscule loss of intended biological activity. Good luck.
Please note this post is wrong, see correction from @readalot below.
Small addition to the post after seeing a thread on Excelmale about mixing hGH with hCG.
As there is a difference in the pH of these compounds its noted the higher pH of the hCG (at 6.5) will cause the hGH to precipitate out of solution when mixed and it goes above pH 5.75. (hGH stated at pH 5.00).
Although test E has a higher pH (range found on quick searches varies from pH 6 to 7.2) any of those ranges would cause issues if both in a water solution, however I would expect for the purpose of quickly drawing up then using straight away if one solution is water and the other oil then this hopefully wouldn’t be an issue?
All of my comments prior were in regards to combining test ester with either HGH or HCG in one syringe. However, you could combine HCG and HGH in one syringe as well although I didn’t think that was what you were interested in doing.
HGH and HCG would share a common stable pH range and I see no issues combining both solutions for an injection.
The comments you read on ExcelMale were regarding Sermorelin not HGH.