T Nation

Hgh Advice... Low IGF and Overwhelmed.


#1

I was recently diagnosed with low t in my early thirties. I've never used prohormones, and my diet and exercise are good. I don't over train, and I.wouldn't consider myself a bodybuilder. Gel has helped bring my t levels up to the 600 range, but I'm still having trouble sleeping/rarely hit rem/dream, and mental/physical fatigue. In asking my doctor about other possibilities, he suggested running IGF, amongst other tests, and said it looked low.

However the medication is so far outside of what I could ever afford, even at a very low dose of 1 IUs a day.I've tried agmatine and ornithine, as well as HIT.
In doing some research, it looks like I have a few options, none of which seem great.

  1. Find an alternative source of pharmacy somatropin, it looks like this 'could' cost $600 for a 136 IU kit, which could cost me around $100 a month, if a low dose worked. However I have no idea on sourcing this, and I'm sure counterfeiting is popular.

  2. Try to achieve a similar result through peptides. Aside from quality concerns, many indicate peptides simply won't give similar results, and aren't as reliable. Also they take some dialing in.

  3. Purchase 'generic'/branded foreign hgh. This seems like a terrible idea. Many seem to be using this stuff with results for bodybuilding, but it seems like it could be anything from a peptide blend to insulin. Most likely it I'd not hgh. While affordable foreign hgh may have been available years ago, it seems like things have changed. Non pharma hgh seems like a bad idea, or at least near impossible to source reliably.

  4. Somehow fight insurance company, not going to happen.

  5. Pay out of pocket, also not going to happen.

What are my options/what do you suggest?


#2

run trt (injectable) and use low dose AI…

testosterone increases IGF-1 significantly… as for sleep? try magnesium taurate, L-Theanine, and melatonin

you may be not getting sufficient nutrients from your diet, id suggest either adding a multivitamin, or drinking a green drink mix.

no need to spend hundreds and thousands on growth hormone.


#3

[quote]Mk83z wrote:
I was recently diagnosed with low t in my early thirties. I’ve never used prohormones, and my diet and exercise are good. I don’t over train, and I.wouldn’t consider myself a bodybuilder. Gel has helped bring my t levels up to the 600 range, but I’m still having trouble sleeping/rarely hit rem/dream, and mental/physical fatigue. In asking my doctor about other possibilities, he suggested running IGF, amongst other tests, and said it looked low.

However the medication is so far outside of what I could ever afford, even at a very low dose of 1 IUs a day.I’ve tried agmatine and ornithine, as well as HIT.
In doing some research, it looks like I have a few options, none of which seem great.

  1. Find an alternative source of pharmacy somatropin, it looks like this ‘could’ cost $600 for a 136 IU kit, which could cost me around $100 a month, if a low dose worked. However I have no idea on sourcing this, and I’m sure counterfeiting is popular.

  2. Try to achieve a similar result through peptides. Aside from quality concerns, many indicate peptides simply won’t give similar results, and aren’t as reliable. Also they take some dialing in.

  3. Purchase ‘generic’/branded foreign hgh. This seems like a terrible idea. Many seem to be using this stuff with results for bodybuilding, but it seems like it could be anything from a peptide blend to insulin. Most likely it I’d not hgh. While affordable foreign hgh may have been available years ago, it seems like things have changed. Non pharma hgh seems like a bad idea, or at least near impossible to source reliably.

  4. Somehow fight insurance company, not going to happen.

  5. Pay out of pocket, also not going to happen.

What are my options/what do you suggest?[/quote]

Sorry, if you want to see your IGF going UP high in the sky, you need real HGH, pharma grade… 2IU would be great for you. 1IU per day, for a while, can put you in 500/ 600ng/ ml… I’ve seen this happen, with a girl that works with me. She used 1UI for 6 months, stop hgh for 4 months, then, she went to blood work for IGF test, she was in the 640 mark. Incredible is the fact that she stoped hgh 4 months before the IGF test and it was so high. I think hgh can keep IGF1 high for a while. Just like GH15 used to say (ha, freak)…

Try some melatonin to get better sleep.


#4

Be careful. You need to know what you’re doing and I’m afraid most bbers don’t know enough about this. There’s so much bullshit and fairy tales on forums you won’t know where to start. Very few do. Lots of bbers swear by the hgh they’re getting and believe their bloodwork proves it but they’re injecting 175-192 that raises IGF1 levels but also creates protein immunogenicity. Want to be sure? Go with pharma grade. Plenty will argue till they’re blue in the face because they spend thousands on crap and think that because it raises IGF1 levels it’s the real deal. Stick with pharma unless you absolutely know what you’re doing(you don’t).


#5

[quote]Thiago Monteiro wrote:

[quote]Mk83z wrote:
I was recently diagnosed with low t in my early thirties. I’ve never used prohormones, and my diet and exercise are good. I don’t over train, and I.wouldn’t consider myself a bodybuilder. Gel has helped bring my t levels up to the 600 range, but I’m still having trouble sleeping/rarely hit rem/dream, and mental/physical fatigue. In asking my doctor about other possibilities, he suggested running IGF, amongst other tests, and said it looked low.

However the medication is so far outside of what I could ever afford, even at a very low dose of 1 IUs a day.I’ve tried agmatine and ornithine, as well as HIT.
In doing some research, it looks like I have a few options, none of which seem great.

  1. Find an alternative source of pharmacy somatropin, it looks like this ‘could’ cost $600 for a 136 IU kit, which could cost me around $100 a month, if a low dose worked. However I have no idea on sourcing this, and I’m sure counterfeiting is popular.

  2. Try to achieve a similar result through peptides. Aside from quality concerns, many indicate peptides simply won’t give similar results, and aren’t as reliable. Also they take some dialing in.

  3. Purchase ‘generic’/branded foreign hgh. This seems like a terrible idea. Many seem to be using this stuff with results for bodybuilding, but it seems like it could be anything from a peptide blend to insulin. Most likely it I’d not hgh. While affordable foreign hgh may have been available years ago, it seems like things have changed. Non pharma hgh seems like a bad idea, or at least near impossible to source reliably.

  4. Somehow fight insurance company, not going to happen.

  5. Pay out of pocket, also not going to happen.

What are my options/what do you suggest?[/quote]

Sorry, if you want to see your IGF going UP high in the sky, you need real HGH, pharma grade… 2IU would be great for you. 1IU per day, for a while, can put you in 500/ 600ng/ ml… I’ve seen this happen, with a girl that works with me. She used 1UI for 6 months, stop hgh for 4 months, then, she went to blood work for IGF test, she was in the 640 mark. Incredible is the fact that she stoped hgh 4 months before the IGF test and it was so high. I think hgh can keep IGF1 high for a while. Just like GH15 used to say (ha, freak)…

Try some melatonin to get better sleep.
[/quote]

Men shouldn’t take HGH during the day. It should be taken before sleep with melatonin for men or during the day for women. I reconstitute 10iu and fill an insulin syringe, take 4iu before sleep with melatonin and put the syringe in the fridge beside my bed. If I wake during the night I take another 2iu. This is as close as possible to natural pulses you can get.

Melatonin and HGH endogenous production are both dependent upon a normal circadian rhythm. Studies show night shift workers have low IGF1 levels and this is why.


#6

The minibar fridge beside my bed.


#7

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]Thiago Monteiro wrote:

[quote]Mk83z wrote:
I was recently diagnosed with low t in my early thirties. I’ve never used prohormones, and my diet and exercise are good. I don’t over train, and I.wouldn’t consider myself a bodybuilder. Gel has helped bring my t levels up to the 600 range, but I’m still having trouble sleeping/rarely hit rem/dream, and mental/physical fatigue. In asking my doctor about other possibilities, he suggested running IGF, amongst other tests, and said it looked low.

However the medication is so far outside of what I could ever afford, even at a very low dose of 1 IUs a day.I’ve tried agmatine and ornithine, as well as HIT.
In doing some research, it looks like I have a few options, none of which seem great.

  1. Find an alternative source of pharmacy somatropin, it looks like this ‘could’ cost $600 for a 136 IU kit, which could cost me around $100 a month, if a low dose worked. However I have no idea on sourcing this, and I’m sure counterfeiting is popular.

  2. Try to achieve a similar result through peptides. Aside from quality concerns, many indicate peptides simply won’t give similar results, and aren’t as reliable. Also they take some dialing in.

  3. Purchase ‘generic’/branded foreign hgh. This seems like a terrible idea. Many seem to be using this stuff with results for bodybuilding, but it seems like it could be anything from a peptide blend to insulin. Most likely it I’d not hgh. While affordable foreign hgh may have been available years ago, it seems like things have changed. Non pharma hgh seems like a bad idea, or at least near impossible to source reliably.

  4. Somehow fight insurance company, not going to happen.

  5. Pay out of pocket, also not going to happen.

What are my options/what do you suggest?[/quote]

Sorry, if you want to see your IGF going UP high in the sky, you need real HGH, pharma grade… 2IU would be great for you. 1IU per day, for a while, can put you in 500/ 600ng/ ml… I’ve seen this happen, with a girl that works with me. She used 1UI for 6 months, stop hgh for 4 months, then, she went to blood work for IGF test, she was in the 640 mark. Incredible is the fact that she stoped hgh 4 months before the IGF test and it was so high. I think hgh can keep IGF1 high for a while. Just like GH15 used to say (ha, freak)…

Try some melatonin to get better sleep.
[/quote]

Men shouldn’t take HGH during the day. It should be taken before sleep with melatonin for men or during the day for women. I reconstitute 10iu and fill an insulin syringe, take 4iu before sleep with melatonin and put the syringe in the fridge beside my bed. If I wake during the night I take another 2iu. This is as close as possible to natural pulses you can get.

Melatonin and HGH endogenous production are both dependent upon a normal circadian rhythm. Studies show night shift workers have low IGF1 levels and this is why.
[/quote]

it depends on how much hgh your going to use, whats the objective… 2 to 4ui pharma you can take it at once. Even 6ui I tried… If you read some of my posts on HGH timing you’re going to see that I recomend doing just as you said, for burning fat you should take it in the middle of the night, when you wake up for a piss, then go back to bed and sleep 2 to 3 hours until you wake up for the day…

If you want to see GROWTH, you need to take it to another level, somewhere around 10 to 20IU per day. Some take 30+ IU day, and of course, you’ll need to split it in 2IUs doses or higher. To grow, they use it with slin, with some meals.

For Us, poor mortal, for fat burning, better quality of life, fuller muscles and a little growth effect, 2 to 4IUs is affordable, and even this dose can get you out of money!

Let me ask you something, this pic you posted, is some china HGH? Jin or similar?

I use hormotrop 12IU, and I get it right from the hospital.


#8

[quote]Thiago Monteiro wrote:

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]Thiago Monteiro wrote:

[quote]Mk83z wrote:
I was recently diagnosed with low t in my early thirties. I’ve never used prohormones, and my diet and exercise are good. I don’t over train, and I.wouldn’t consider myself a bodybuilder. Gel has helped bring my t levels up to the 600 range, but I’m still having trouble sleeping/rarely hit rem/dream, and mental/physical fatigue. In asking my doctor about other possibilities, he suggested running IGF, amongst other tests, and said it looked low.

However the medication is so far outside of what I could ever afford, even at a very low dose of 1 IUs a day.I’ve tried agmatine and ornithine, as well as HIT.
In doing some research, it looks like I have a few options, none of which seem great.

  1. Find an alternative source of pharmacy somatropin, it looks like this ‘could’ cost $600 for a 136 IU kit, which could cost me around $100 a month, if a low dose worked. However I have no idea on sourcing this, and I’m sure counterfeiting is popular.

  2. Try to achieve a similar result through peptides. Aside from quality concerns, many indicate peptides simply won’t give similar results, and aren’t as reliable. Also they take some dialing in.

  3. Purchase ‘generic’/branded foreign hgh. This seems like a terrible idea. Many seem to be using this stuff with results for bodybuilding, but it seems like it could be anything from a peptide blend to insulin. Most likely it I’d not hgh. While affordable foreign hgh may have been available years ago, it seems like things have changed. Non pharma hgh seems like a bad idea, or at least near impossible to source reliably.

  4. Somehow fight insurance company, not going to happen.

  5. Pay out of pocket, also not going to happen.

What are my options/what do you suggest?[/quote]

Sorry, if you want to see your IGF going UP high in the sky, you need real HGH, pharma grade… 2IU would be great for you. 1IU per day, for a while, can put you in 500/ 600ng/ ml… I’ve seen this happen, with a girl that works with me. She used 1UI for 6 months, stop hgh for 4 months, then, she went to blood work for IGF test, she was in the 640 mark. Incredible is the fact that she stoped hgh 4 months before the IGF test and it was so high. I think hgh can keep IGF1 high for a while. Just like GH15 used to say (ha, freak)…

Try some melatonin to get better sleep.
[/quote]

Men shouldn’t take HGH during the day. It should be taken before sleep with melatonin for men or during the day for women. I reconstitute 10iu and fill an insulin syringe, take 4iu before sleep with melatonin and put the syringe in the fridge beside my bed. If I wake during the night I take another 2iu. This is as close as possible to natural pulses you can get.

Melatonin and HGH endogenous production are both dependent upon a normal circadian rhythm. Studies show night shift workers have low IGF1 levels and this is why.
[/quote]

it depends on how much hgh your going to use, whats the objective… 2 to 4ui pharma you can take it at once. Even 6ui I tried… If you read some of my posts on HGH timing you’re going to see that I recomend doing just as you said, for burning fat you should take it in the middle of the night, when you wake up for a piss, then go back to bed and sleep 2 to 3 hours until you wake up for the day…

If you want to see GROWTH, you need to take it to another level, somewhere around 10 to 20IU per day. Some take 30+ IU day, and of course, you’ll need to split it in 2IUs doses or higher. To grow, they use it with slin, with some meals.

For Us, poor mortal, for fat burning, better quality of life, fuller muscles and a little growth effect, 2 to 4IUs is affordable, and even this dose can get you out of money!

Let me ask you something, this pic you posted, is some china HGH? Jin or similar?

I use hormotrop 12IU, and I get it right from the hospital.[/quote]

I need to be careful because I was warned about talking sources but I use Jins. These are 200iu kits.

I think it’s probably unsafe taking the sort of doses you mention. It shuts down the pituitary just like AAS shuts down the testes. I run hgh in cycles to hold onto AAS gains between AAS cycles and use l-glutamine and l-arginine to stimulate the pituitary to produce same way as HCG is used on cycle to stimulate leydig cells. Only it’s a lot more hit and miss and for a lot of people aminos don’t work.

AAS for growth HGH for maintenance


#9

Anyone have experience with mk677? Worth it or waste of money?


#10

So it sounds like finding a reliable and affordable source for pharmaceutical really is the only option. What is especially concerning is that it seems any number of substances increase IGF levels and give bbers gains, although many are not hgh. Even in my research, something like the jintropin above is faked extremely often, though I’m sure US pharma also has this problem.


#11

[quote]Mk83z wrote:
So it sounds like finding a reliable and affordable source for pharmaceutical really is the only option. What is especially concerning is that it seems any number of substances increase IGF levels and give bbers gains, although many are not hgh. Even in my research, something like the jintropin above is faked extremely often, though I’m sure US pharma also has this problem.[/quote]

The BEST OF THE BEST SOURCE I’VE FOUND was I friend of mine, who has a kid with growth problems, and the treatment was giving incredible results, the kid was growing like a beast! He could get the pharma HGH from the local pharma for free, just because he proven not to be able to pay for the treatment, and the government gave all the HGH he needs.

Detail, the kid uses what the Doc prescribe, but some boxes were left, then, guess what? … it sounds a little creepy but this is the best kind of source, Real Pharma HGH with price of banana (of course you need to negociate it)… I know a few BBers using several sources like this. U can try other diseases, AIDS, it’s creepy but you’re going to have real HGH.


#12

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
run trt (injectable) and use low dose AI…

testosterone increases IGF-1 significantly… as for sleep? try magnesium taurate, L-Theanine, and melatonin

you may be not getting sufficient nutrients from your diet, id suggest either adding a multivitamin, or drinking a green drink mix.

no need to spend hundreds and thousands on growth hormone. [/quote]

yeah, i agree with this…

600 ng/dl is an average level of testosterone. if you bring that up a bit, you can expect to feel better from that, as well as raising your IGF-1.

after doing that, i’d suggest looking into MK-677, which is an oral hGH peptide. it won’t bring you up as high as real hGH, but it should get your levels up a bit and it’s relatively inexpensive and low in side effects.

EDIT: also, what are your DHEA and E2 levels?