T Nation

HGC : during or after

Ok boys, this is what most the AAS using community is saying AND practicing. READ THIS:

“The usual protocol is to inject 1500-3000 I.U. every 4’” or 5t" day, for a duration usually no longer than 2 or 3 weeks. If used for too long or at too high a dose, the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig’s cells to luteinizing hormone, further hindering a return to homeostasis. Timing the initial dose is also very crucial. If your were coming off a cycle of Sustanon for example, testosterone levels in your blood will likely stay elevated for at least 3 to 4 weeks after your last injection. Taking HCG on the day of your last shot would therefore be useless.* Instead one would want to calculate the last week in which androgen levels are likely to be above normal, and begin ancillary drug therapy at this point. In this case HCG would be started around the third or fourth week. Likewise, after ending a cycle of Dianabol (an oral) your blood levels will be sub normal after the third day. Here you may want to begin HCG therapy a few days before your last intake of tablets, giving it a few days to take effect. One would also want to give some thought to the level of suppression that the cycle might have brought about. After an 8 week cycle of Equipoise? for example, 1500-2500 I.U. would likely be a sufficient initial dosage. The lower amount of hormonal suppression one associates with this drug would probably not require much more. On the other hand, 750-1000mg of Sustanon per week might incline the user to inject a much larger HCG dose, perhaps as much as 5000 I.U. for the opening application. It may thereafter also be a good idea to reduce the dosage on subsequent shots, so as to step down the intake of HCG during the two or three weeks of intake.

As discussed above, HCG acts only to mimic the action of LH. It is likewise not the perfect hormone to combat testosterone suppression, and for this reason it is used most often in conjunction with estrogen antagonists such as Clomid?, Nolvadex? or cyclofenil. These drugs have a different effect on the regulating system, namely inhibiting estrogen-induced suppression at the hypothalamus. This of course also helps to restore the release of testosterone, although through a much different mechanism than HCG. A combination of both drugs appears to be very synergistic, HCG providing an immediate effect on the testes (shocking them out of inactivity) while the antiestrogen helps later to block inhibition on the hypothalamus and resume the normal release of gonadotropins from the pituitary. The typical procedure involves giving the Clomid?/Nolvadex? dose from the start with HCG, but continuing it alone for a few weeks once HCG has been discontinued. This practice should effectively raise testosterone levels, which will hopefully remain stable once Clomid?/Nolvadex? have been discontinued. While unfortunately there is no way to retain all of the muscle gains produced by anabolic steroids, using ancillaries to restore a balanced hormonal state is the best way to minimize the loss felt with ending a cycle."

This seems to hold credabilty in my book

I have been doing research on HCG for TRT purposes. One doctor who does a lot of TRT recommends that you use 250-500iu’s the day before and the day of your weekly test cyp shot. Anything above 500IU at a time dramatically increases aromatase activity–and subsequently elevated estrogen levels it mentions. If you need a bit more than they add days for the shot (not the amount of the dose).

merlin. i use it every weekend throughout. stopping the week of my last shot. i use it every suppressive cycle which is essentially every cycle. by just using it two days at lower doses i get enough stimulation to prevent testicular atrophy while not too much as to cause permanent LH desensatization at the hpta.

Yea well guess what lats, this guy is WRONG!!! The second that your blood levels drop below normal, LH is what needs to be restored… after a few days of sub par blood levels, you should be able to restore enough LH via clomid where your atrophy would cease anyhow… thus absolutely negating the need for HCG. Whoever wrote this just does not know what he is talking about. But if you don’t want to listen to us, please don’t. In response to your other question, Cy Willson is the man who was answering those quesitons.

SQUATTY AND DRAGO, i sent each of you a pm the other day and i just realized i wasnt able to recieve them in return. did you guys get them? if so i am able to recieve them now.

How come I didn’t get a pm? That makes me sad.

:frowning:
that’s my sad face

OK, so HCG during a cycle is NOT affected by the current androgens floating around? Is that right? Does anyone have an article or study showing this for me to read?

My god bro, its common sence… the reason your ball stop making test is because they do not receive an LH message. The do not receive an LH message because youre Hypothalamus tells your pituitary to chill for a while. If you introduct an artificial LH message, obviously your balls will make test. Just think about it, you don’t need a fucking study.

To sum up every thing that has been said, The reason for HCG use is to keep the testes “in good working condition” during a cycle where like any muscle or organ when not used, they would atrophy and be decreased in effectiveness. It is like exercise for the astronaut. The key however is to keep the doses as low as possible to prevent desensitization. The theory behind this is that it is easier to recover function of the hpta then it is to recover testicular function once atrophy has occured. Constant atrophy and hypertrophy of the testicles are also theorized (can’t recall my sources at the moment) to cause developement of fibrosis or… basically the unused testicular tissue is removed by the body and replaced by fibrin or scar type tissue. This can lead to permament hypogonadism in itself!

Prisoner…I get it now!!! this should be stated for all for future posts of what HCG is REALLY used for: TO KEEP YOUR NUTTS SAFE!!! By shooting a dose every week or 2 will prevent any problems that may arise from prolonged atrophy HENCE acting as a maintence man during a cycle. If HCG is used after a cycle, it could already be too late and is harder to “resusatate your nutts” (like a drown victum). This post should be a good lesson for future posts. HGC IS A MAINTANENCE MAN. END OF STORY.

I would like to thank everyone who contributed, especially Squatty, you kept the thread rolling, but bro, prisoner put it better than you did, thats why I wasn’t pickin it up. You have to talk meathead next time.

Just to add. I found a site of some famous UK trainer and he said that 1500iu every 2 weeks would be a good “maintenance” dose.

Good thread. Peace

Fellas,

I use the same protocl as Drago1 (as recommended by SWALE and hopefully he'll chime in soon cause he knows his shit)  

 However my question to you is cn I use TOO MUCH HCG?  I'm sorry but I picked taht up in the past few posts but would love to hear more resoning on it.  I was planning on using 1000ius every Sat and Sun.  My last cycle I used 750 each day and it worked great, however, I will be increasing my dosages of AS so does this inturn mean I should up the dosage of HCG?

Thanks

Well dammit, I’m offended. I found myself to be rather eloquent in my explanation.

Well shit. Thought I contributed something here.
Glad we’re all in agreement now, though. We are all in agreement now, right?

good posts all. pdog, i responded to your pm but deleted it after that. pm me again if you still need to. this was a good thread. glad to see some of you meatheads are open minded enough to learn. we never stop learning. thats one thing i love about this game. i learn something every day.

Come here guys, give me a hug. Now all because we had our arguements doesn’t mean both of you aren’t my special pooka bears. Now take this shot of HCG so you stop whining like you have a pussy between your legs.

How long should one continue to administer the use of HCG after a cycle? Should it be 1 week after the steroid leaves the body or through PCT…Example:

10WK Sust Cycle
Take HCG for 14 weeks since Sust is finished after last inj. in 3Wks

OR

10WK Prop Cycle
Take it for 11 weeks since Prop leaves the body fast

Any input would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
BB

Brown bomber: If you calculate your half lives correctly, (in my opinion) you should continue taking hcg up until about a week to a half of a week before your test levels drop below physiologic levels. hcg has a half life of 23 hours and you want to take this into account as well, as it will probably take 4 days to completely leave your system. So you want to give yourself doses up to the point that you still have exogenous test above physiologic levels in your system but not exceeding it because then you would just be causing further hpta inhibition. Depending on what esters you use up to your final week this can be a long time. There is a handy halflife calculator here:

I would speculate that your levels of exogenous test need to drop below 100 mg before recover of natural T can begin.

brownbomber,

read the previous posts on this subject!!!

using the hcg after the cycle will delay recovery. using during the cycle up till maybe a week after last injection. You dont want to use after cycle ends

by Bill Roberts - HCG is provided as a glycoprotein powder to be diluted with water, and acts in the body like LH, stimulating the testes to produce testosterone even when natural LH is not present or is deficient. It therefore is useful for maintaining testosterone production and/or testicle size during a steroid cycle. Use of this drug in the taper is rather counterproductive, since the resulting increased testosterone production is itself inhibitory to the hypothalamus and pituitary, delaying recovery. Thus, if this drug is used, it is preferably used during the cycle itself. A daily amount of 500 IU is generally sufficient, and in my opinion usage should not exceed 1000 IU per day.