T Nation

Hero...Or Zero?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Other than Obama’s tax hike on everyone making over 31K, or McCain’s position in the Russia/Georgia situation - has anyone actually heard a candidate’s position on anything remotely related to the next 4 years?
[/quote]

Lies. http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/hannahhassett/ObamasTaxPlan.gif

[quote]mharmar wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Other than Obama’s tax hike on everyone making over 31K, or McCain’s position in the Russia/Georgia situation - has anyone actually heard a candidate’s position on anything remotely related to the next 4 years?

Lies. http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/hannahhassett/ObamasTaxPlan.gif

[/quote]

You give me a fucking chart with no source? I’m sorry, but unlike you, I am not swayed by pretty gifs, and bar charts. Good God, what would d with yourself if it were animated?

Sorry kiddo, but if you make $31K or more - your taxes are going up. Capital gains tax is going up 33%, and we will have a 50% marginal rate for the first time since Carter left office.

[quote]tg2hbk4488 wrote:
For all the people saying about just because he is a POW doesnt mean he should be president should read the OP

This thread is bashing about how McCain made up all the stuff about being a POW. It is not about what and does not qualify him for president or if he would be a good one or not

[/quote]

Yes, TG… read the OP yourself. I stated no opinion. I merely posted a link with the question “Hero or Zero?” The readers can make up their own minds. Seems fair to me. Your bowels are so backed up in fear that a Dem would turn this into a socialist state (hardly likely). Last time I checked, we weren’t a socialist state when the last Dem held office.

And last time I checked, it’s guys like you who voted for idiots like Bush that have severely fucked our once great nation the last 8 years.

[quote]mharmar wrote:
Actually according to Bush and Cheney, McCain wasn’t even tortured he was simply interrogated effectively.[/quote]

OK now that is very, very funny. Salud!

[quote]jre67t wrote:

Put on your flight suit you bitch. Go show us, how much fucking better you are. You fucking disrespectful asswipe.
John McCain was shot down so your dumb ass can fucking insult his flying skills. [/quote]

So many ad hominems and so little intelligence.

Belligerent didn’t say he was any better as a combat pilot. He said McCain was a shitty combat pilot. I concur. What good pilot gets shot down?

The difference between McCain and Belligerent is that Belligerent is smart enough not to get into a figher plane – McCain is obviously not that smart.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
mharmar wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Other than Obama’s tax hike on everyone making over 31K, or McCain’s position in the Russia/Georgia situation - has anyone actually heard a candidate’s position on anything remotely related to the next 4 years?

Lies. http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk272/hannahhassett/ObamasTaxPlan.gif

You give me a fucking chart with no source? I’m sorry, but unlike you, I am not swayed by pretty gifs, and bar charts. Good God, what would d with yourself if it were animated?

Sorry kiddo, but if you make $31K or more - your taxes are going up. Capital gains tax is going up 33%, and we will have a 50% marginal rate for the first time since Carter left office.

[/quote]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/more_tax_deceptions.html

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
jre67t wrote:

Put on your flight suit you bitch. Go show us, how much fucking better you are. You fucking disrespectful asswipe.
John McCain was shot down so your dumb ass can fucking insult his flying skills.

So many ad hominems and so little intelligence.

Belligerent didn’t say he was any better as a combat pilot. He said McCain was a shitty combat pilot. I concur. What good pilot gets shot down?

The difference between McCain and Belligerent is that Belligerent is smart enough not to get into a figher plane – McCain is obviously not that smart.[/quote]

Let me be the first to say that Belligerent doesn’t know what he’s talking about in regard to McCain’s piloting skill. Getting nailed by a missile on your 23rd mission over VN in a A-4 certainly doesn’t make you shitty. It’s called bad luck. You’ve watched Top Gun too many times …

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
You’ve watched Top Gun too many times … [/quote]

I hate military and war movies.

[quote]mharmar wrote:
Actually according to Bush and Cheney, McCain wasn’t even tortured he was simply interrogated effectively.[/quote]

I just went back and checked the details on McCain’s captivity …

  • first they used a rifle butt to break his shoulder.
  • then they bayonetted him.
  • then they interrogated him for days without treating the above injuries nor the two fractured legs and the fractured arm.
  • once they DID give him “care” he lost 50 pounds and his hair turned white.
  • then they put him in solitary confinement for 2 years.
  • then they started tying him to the ceiling and beating him every two hours trying to get a confession. This left him unable to lift his arms above his head for the rest of his life.

I had no idea that Bush and Cheney were stabbing, breaking bones, tying guys to the ceiling and beating them every two hours???

Huh …

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
I had no idea that Bush and Cheney were stabbing, breaking bones, tying guys to the ceiling and beating them every two hours???

Huh …
[/quote]

See? torture doesn’t work. McCain is the only one of the Republicans beside Ron Paul to address it as the heinous act that it is.

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
mharmar wrote:
Actually according to Bush and Cheney, McCain wasn’t even tortured he was simply interrogated effectively.

I just went back and checked the details on McCain’s captivity …

  • first they used a rifle butt to break his shoulder.
  • then they bayonetted him.
  • then they interrogated him for days without treating the above injuries nor the two fractured legs and the fractured arm.
  • once they DID give him “care” he lost 50 pounds and his hair turned white.
  • then they put him in solitary confinement for 2 years.
  • then they started tying him to the ceiling and beating him every two hours trying to get a confession. This left him unable to lift his arms above his head for the rest of his life.

I had no idea that Bush and Cheney were stabbing, breaking bones, tying guys to the ceiling and beating them every two hours???

Huh …

[/quote]

Read up on a couple of the deaths at Bagram. Not to mention Abu Ghraib. Not saying Bush ordered the military, CIA and contractors to beat people to death. But when you toss out the Geneva Conventions, have Justice write memos justifying torture, and foster a climate of “enhanced interrogations”, what do you think is going to happen?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:

That being said, belligerent has a point. Not about McCain’s flying skills, but about the relevance of all this.

I hate to break this to you guys but…this is an election year. Not just an election year - an election year with a 24-hour news cycle.

Relevance has absolutely dick to do with this. You should know it as well as I do. It ranks right up there with Barry’s step brother, or what ever he is.

And the real mudslinging hasn’t even started yet.

Other than Obama’s tax hike on everyone making over 31K, or McCain’s position in the Russia/Georgia situation - has anyone actually heard a candidate’s position on anything remotely related to the next 4 years?

I haven’t. But I can tell you that McCain can’t keep track of how many homes he owns, and that Obama has a heck of a time remembering how many states are in the Union.

[/quote]

Which is why we’ve gotten the presidents we’ve deserved for the last few decades. Really gives one faith in mass democracy.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
jre67t wrote:

Put on your flight suit you bitch. Go show us, how much fucking better you are. You fucking disrespectful asswipe.
John McCain was shot down so your dumb ass can fucking insult his flying skills.

So many ad hominems and so little intelligence.

Belligerent didn’t say he was any better as a combat pilot. He said McCain was a shitty combat pilot. I concur. What good pilot gets shot down?
[/quote]

Idiotic. The Red Baron. Bud Day. Thousands more.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
mharmar wrote:
Actually according to Bush and Cheney, McCain wasn’t even tortured he was simply interrogated effectively.

I just went back and checked the details on McCain’s captivity …

  • first they used a rifle butt to break his shoulder.
  • then they bayonetted him.
  • then they interrogated him for days without treating the above injuries nor the two fractured legs and the fractured arm.
  • once they DID give him “care” he lost 50 pounds and his hair turned white.
  • then they put him in solitary confinement for 2 years.
  • then they started tying him to the ceiling and beating him every two hours trying to get a confession. This left him unable to lift his arms above his head for the rest of his life.

I had no idea that Bush and Cheney were stabbing, breaking bones, tying guys to the ceiling and beating them every two hours???

Huh …

Read up on a couple of the deaths at Bagram. Not to mention Abu Ghraib. Not saying Bush ordered the military, CIA and contractors to beat people to death. But when you toss out the Geneva Conventions, have Justice write memos justifying torture, and foster a climate of “enhanced interrogations”, what do you think is going to happen?[/quote]

GDollars … I hate to hijack this into Geneva. But we didn’t throw out Geneva. Geneva doesn’t apply to terrorists. In fact it was specifically written to EXCLUDE terrorists so that countries wouldn’t employ terrorists tactics.

If you think we should treat terrorist better … fine … that’s a legit opinion just one I happen to disagree with. But please stop with this “throw Geneva out” angle.

Does it ever occur to you btw that you are much more incensed about US waterboarding and keeping people up at night with loud music than you are with Mugabe murdering millions … or the Russians looting in Georgia … or Saddam’s sons REALLY torturing their national soccer players for not winning … putting human beings through paper shredders, invading Kuwait and raping their women on the way in and the way out … lighting their oil wells on fire, dumping bio weapons on the kurds and on and on …

Doesn’t that strike you as just a little pathological ???

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:
You’ve watched Top Gun too many times …

I hate military and war movies.[/quote]

That is no excuse, Top Gun is gay drama.

A riveting tale of a young pilot, struggling with his sexuality.

Brokeback Mountain with wings.

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:

GDollars … I hate to hijack this into Geneva. But we didn’t throw out Geneva. Geneva doesn’t apply to terrorists. In fact it was specifically written to EXCLUDE terrorists so that countries wouldn’t employ terrorists tactics.
[/quote]

Nonsense…

[quote]orion wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:

GDollars … I hate to hijack this into Geneva. But we didn’t throw out Geneva. Geneva doesn’t apply to terrorists. In fact it was specifically written to EXCLUDE terrorists so that countries wouldn’t employ terrorists tactics.

Nonsense…

[/quote]

That is exactly what it is for. To protect uniformed soldiers and not spies and saboteurs.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
flyboy51v wrote:

GDollars … I hate to hijack this into Geneva. But we didn’t throw out Geneva. Geneva doesn’t apply to terrorists. In fact it was specifically written to EXCLUDE terrorists so that countries wouldn’t employ terrorists tactics.

Nonsense…

That is exactly what it is for. To protect uniformed soldiers and not spies and saboteurs. [/quote]

… and as long as their status is not clear they are to be detained like the Geneva convention describes, and they have to be tried using the rules of the convention…

Also it is in no way a carte blanche to just randomly kidnap people like the US did.

That is just plain illegal and we do not even need the GC to know that.

[quote]orion wrote:

That is just plain illegal and we do not even need the GC to know that. [/quote]

If there was no GC, how could it be illegal?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
orion wrote:

That is just plain illegal and we do not even need the GC to know that.

If there was no GC, how could it be illegal?

[/quote]

Because you cannot just kidnap German, Danish or French nationals, not on European soil; not anywhere else, unless they have a “Oh! I guess kidnapping is ok if the Us does it”-clause.