Hernon Style Training

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]buzza wrote:
sometime ago I read this -very informative-3ead

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_alpha/bodypart_once_weekly?id=3025999&pageNo=0

Decided to give a go to Hernon style session ,3 sets x muscle with different load and reps,
1stx5 reps,2nd (less 10% load than 1st) x9reps,3d (less10% load than second x12/14 reps).
I used same excercise for all 3 sets,slightly inclined bench bb press.

first set; 231lbx5 reps,slow eccentrics 4sec, failure.
3min rest.
207x6 (six reps to failure).
3min rest.
187x7 (seven reps to failure).

I can’t hit reps number described in the link above while reducing the load of 10%…
I have trained in rest pause mode for last 6months (typically 5/3/1 plus half reps ) with good size gains (returned to over 17inch arm but i’m 22lb lighter now).
any tips to use an Hernon style session?? (as it sounds very logical hitting different muscle fibers in just one w/o…)

thanks

Mikael from Italy[/quote]

What it sounds like to me is you have a considerably higher percentage of fast twitch fibers than I do (or the majority of lifters). Thats preventing you from the 10% drops. Thats definitely not a bad thing for both muscle and strength, as you should have a higher ceiling for both with my fast twitch fibers, you just need to adjust your percentages. There is no hard rule…let the reps dictate the weight, not vice versa. After just a few sessions, you will have a good handle on what your drop should be to hit the reps.
[/quote]

hmm. why such long resting periods?

i typically drop 5-10% (depending on movement) but rest 2 mins at the very most… other wise i think my sessions woule be close to 2 hours[/quote]

I don’t time my rest periods anymore, I just rest until it feels like I have recovered. Glancing at the watch though, its usually 3-4 minutes.

You are obviously doing many more sets than I do if your w/o would approach 2 hours. I am usually 3-4 sets/bodypart and I’m done.
[/quote]

i timed how long i was resting today. turns out i was taking 3-4 mins between sets… it amazes me how short that felt though

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Anyone have any word on Hernon’s diet recommendations?

I read somewhere (another forum perhaps) that he prescribed NOT eating on a clocked schedule, but only when hungry, and that you should follow a strict protein/carb/fat ratio at every meal. I wish I had the source on that info, but hoping one of you would know.[/quote]

From another source I have the same information. Will send you a PM.

I am positive I’ve read the same recommendation. I think I can find it and send it to you if Xander hasn’t already.

Having been on Hernon’s routine for the past 2 weeks, I can say that I haven’t been this sore in a long time. Not even my last 13 week run with high-volume (20 sets per muscle). I don’t even remember this level of DOMS when I did 6 months of DoggCrapp last year.

I was just telling my wife that as my appearance improves, the more I physically feel like crap.

lol

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Having been on Hernon’s routine for the past 2 weeks, I can say that I haven’t been this sore in a long time. Not even my last 13 week run with high-volume (20 sets per muscle). I don’t even remember this level of DOMS when I did 6 months of DoggCrapp last year.

I was just telling my wife that as my appearance improves, the more I physically feel like crap.

lol[/quote]

what hernon routine are you referring to, exactly?

3-way split, done twice per week… 6 days on, one off.
Failure on every set. 5-10-15 reps descending weight each set, 2-3 min rest between.

I find I really focus a lot into each set… knowing there are only 3 sets per muscle group.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

I was just telling my wife that as my appearance improves, the more I physically feel like crap.

lol[/quote]

:slight_smile:

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Having been on Hernon’s routine for the past 2 weeks, I can say that I haven’t been this sore in a long time. Not even my last 13 week run with high-volume (20 sets per muscle). I don’t even remember this level of DOMS when I did 6 months of DoggCrapp last year.

I was just telling my wife that as my appearance improves, the more I physically feel like crap.

lol[/quote]

That will subside quickly as you adjust… As long as the diet is dialed in.[/quote]

Thanks Modok.

Frankly, I don’t think I can strictly adhere to Hernon’s dietary prescription. A bit of leeway will help me get in the required cals.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Having been on Hernon’s routine for the past 2 weeks, I can say that I haven’t been this sore in a long time. Not even my last 13 week run with high-volume (20 sets per muscle). I don’t even remember this level of DOMS when I did 6 months of DoggCrapp last year.

I was just telling my wife that as my appearance improves, the more I physically feel like crap.

lol[/quote]

well me too think that Hernon(ish) style is tough, I was used at short&intense sessions (HIT/DC protocols) but to me the corner of this kind of routine is the different range of reps.
now I just did lats,traps and foreamrs,used a stopwatch…
just two sets on same excercise (I like very simple things);
first 5 reps to failure(25’TUL)/30’rest/2 reps to failure
4/5min rest
10 reps to failure (40’TUL)/30’ rest/4 reps to failure.

so a mixed DC/Hernon protocol…

have to say that are the “high” reps sets who litterally kills me,hope to increase muscle fibers that I never trained…
any tips?

ah, I’m eating more prtotein trying to help recovery since I have a pretty active job…

Mike from Italy/pretty tired LOL

Well, my arms are up 1/8 inch since doing Hernon’s routine (haven’t yet weighed myself though). Still tired as hell for half the week. I’m thinking of breaking up the 6 days straight schedule into 3 on-one off. Hit some PR’s for delts, back, and hams!

The past week I’ve only eaten when hungry (as per Hernon’s recommendation), and this is such a relief to my digestive system. I’m able to eat larger quantities of food this way, and then am allowed to get to the point of hunger again before eating. Nothing worse than forcing food down your throat when you’re not the least bit hungry from just having eaten 2-3 hours prior.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
The past week I’ve only eaten when hungry (as per Hernon’s recommendation), and this is such a relief to my digestive system. I’m able to eat larger quantities of food this way, and then am allowed to get to the point of hunger again before eating. Nothing worse than forcing food down your throat when you’re not the least bit hungry from just having eaten 2-3 hours prior.[/quote]

I’ve recently moved in that direction with my eating as well, even though I feared I would eat too little and whither away. If anything, I’m eating more and digesting it better. Now, maybe this is a temporary thing, a long-overdue break from such frequent eating giving my digestive system a rest, but I’ll ride it out for as long as it lasts. I’m getting better at reading my own body and responding to its cues, even if they fly in the face of conventional wisdom. I’m beginning to think that nutritional advice has become too uniform.

[quote]leon79 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
The past week I’ve only eaten when hungry (as per Hernon’s recommendation), and this is such a relief to my digestive system. I’m able to eat larger quantities of food this way, and then am allowed to get to the point of hunger again before eating. Nothing worse than forcing food down your throat when you’re not the least bit hungry from just having eaten 2-3 hours prior.[/quote]

I’ve recently moved in that direction with my eating as well, even though I feared I would eat too little and whither away. If anything, I’m eating more and digesting it better. Now, maybe this is a temporary thing, a long-overdue break from such frequent eating giving my digestive system a rest, but I’ll ride it out for as long as it lasts. I’m getting better at reading my own body and responding to its cues, even if they fly in the face of conventional wisdom. I’m beginning to think that nutritional advice has become too uniform.[/quote]

This.

last week -as per Modok advices- I increased daily food qty,like for dinner 10oz of roast turkey and 7oz of cod,plus vegetables never felt so full and heavy,now I eat without limits but just when hungry,don’t wanna feel like a boxed goat forced to eat…

Okay… so I’ve just completed 5 weeks on Hernon’s routine and now I feel totally burnt out and have developed some tendinitis in my right elbow and a twinge of it in my knees. But am I bummed out? No way! I stepped on the scale this morning and I’m 4 lbs heavier, and my arms are up 1/4 of an inch since the start! This is great progress for an old “hard-gainer” like myself with a history of injuries.

In the mirror my waist looks smaller (less bloated) and my lats and shoulders are up. His approach to eating (only when hungry, instead of on a clocked schedule) has really made a difference in the way I look and especially the way I feel.

I’m taking a few days off (to let some of these aches dissipate) and then I’m jumping right back into the routine (with a few exercise selection changes).

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Okay… so I’ve just completed 5 weeks on Hernon’s routine and now I feel totally burnt out

++++++++ciao ID,
I’m too on Hernonish style,I did some changes ; I splitted the training even more to help recovery (I have a dynamic job) so basically i’m training every day (but sunday on powercasting field :slight_smile:

monday is delts,traps,tris
tuesday; back/legs
wedsnay; chest,bis,neck,abs
and again.
every session last about 30/40min.

I’m training sore (as per Modok advices -thanx again!-) but as soon I warm up soreness goes away and I can push 110%.
I’m eating more,MB goes higher so I’m eating more (all italian food, not junk food).feel always slightly sore not tired, strangely…

and have developed some tendinitis in my right elbow and a twinge of it in my knees.

++++++indeed.
my right elbow started to get a little on flame but it’s under controll (for now).
to be safer on elbows I switched to ;
-one arm db extension lying on flat bench for tris, taking the elbow inclinated over my head and no lockout
-bb JM press ,again with no lockout.
-and I’m doing a sort -just one straight set as 3 sets of lateral raises really kill the delts-of bb MP “mini press” a la Cutler, to avoid any stress on elbows…

btw,i’m thinking to avoid lockouts also on (sorry, run to office for an emergence :slight_smile: bench presses,something says to me that BP lockouts play a big role in elbows infiammation???

But am I bummed out? No way! I stepped on the scale this morning and I’m 4 lbs heavier, and my arms are up 1/4 of an inch since the start! This is great progress for an old “hard-gainer” like myself with a history of injuries.

*****me too weight about 3 kilos more,my girlfriend said I look bigger but I have to check it out (tape,next week :slight_smile:

In the mirror my waist looks smaller (less bloated) and my lats and shoulders are up. His approach to eating (only when hungry, instead of on a clocked schedule) has really made a difference in the way I look and especially the way I feel.

****keep it up!

I’m taking a few days off (to let some of these aches dissipate) and then I’m jumping right back into the routine (with a few exercise selection changes). [/quote]

my former right guard (orthopedic now) suggested to me to take just one (500mg) aspirine every day because of slight joints pain,it’second week and it seems to work???

PS; today at gym, a new PB, on lat pulldowns machine,
rope pull-over 80 kgx6/177lbx6 in strict form

I’m very interested in this. I’ve been training this way and this is my 4th week. I got sick in the middle but I’m attacking it now. I’ve been doing each bodypart 3 times weekly. One excercise each… 3 sets… 10% drops etc. My right elbow is also tender but it hasn’t stopped me yet. I am not doing the diet but I’m interested in what you guys are doing for exercise selection pertaining to the elbow issues.

I dropped overhead pressing as per Hernon’s recomendation for now as an experiment. Pressing wise I am doing Flat bench, Incline, and weighted dips for my 3 chest workouts. For Tris, I am doing CGB, PJR’s, and pushdowns. I’ve been rotating day 1, Chest, back, bis, calves and on day 2 shoulders, thighs, tris, and abs.

[quote]DJS wrote:
I dropped overhead pressing as per Hernon’s recomendation for now as an experiment. Pressing wise I am doing Flat bench, Incline, and weighted dips for my 3 chest workouts. For Tris, I am doing CGB, PJR’s, and pushdowns. I’ve been rotating day 1, Chest, back, bis, calves and on day 2 shoulders, thighs, tris, and abs.

[/quote]

Why does Hernon recommend dropping the OHP? And what does he suggest as a replacement(s)? If you could just point me to where you read this, I’ll look myself, just curious on where I can read up on more about Hernon’s philosophy, as I’m making magnificent progress on Big Beyond Belief, which I hear is heavily influenced bu him…

because front delts are heavily trained from any kind of bench pressing (more on inclined btw)and side delts is not very stimulated by MPs and variants,
the pain I get from 3 sets of dbs side raises Hernon style is in my side delts,if I do MP/Scott press pain is my front delts,I wanna wider shoulders so I stick with side raises,

Exactly, Buzza. Although I still do DB presses every other delt workout, I focus primarily on lateral raises. I use a weight that lets me barely get the dumbbells up, then I fight like hell to hold them in place at the top, as they slowly descend. Next day, the DOMS are delicious in the side delts. :slight_smile:


By the way, on a side note, taking 3 days off has really helped my elbow and knee tendinitis. HOWEVER, the DOMS from returning to the routine are ferocious. I trained legs on Monday and today (Thursday) my quads, hams and calves are so sore I can barely walk.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Exactly, Buzza. Although I still do DB presses every other delt workout, I focus primarily on lateral raises. I use a weight that lets me barely get the dumbbells up, then I fight like hell to hold them in place at the top, as they slowly descend. Next day, the DOMS are delicious in the side delts. :slight_smile:


By the way, on a side note, taking 3 days off has really helped my elbow and knee tendinitis. HOWEVER, the DOMS from returning to the routine are ferocious. I trained legs on Monday and today (Thursday) my quads, hams and calves are so sore I can barely walk. [/quote]

Try taking a monthly deload week.