Here I Go!

Ok, well that makes me feel a little more comfortable to know that the Adex and/or Nolva works pretty fast! So I will just stick with the 400mg Test E/week without the Adex and see what happens. Hopefully at that low of a dose I wont need it at all but I definately will keep it close by.

Jazz

It would still be a better option for you to bump it up to 500mg/wk. That extra 100mg will make a big difference.

And if you’re going to run such a damned low dose, those extra two weeks on the end I mentioned last time will make a big difference.

World

I also think you should run the test E. at 500mgs a week.
400mgs of test E isnt even really 400 mgs. im not sure exactly but the ester attached decreases the amount of actual test. so if you were shooting 400mgs of prop it would be closer to 400mgs and even more so with suspension. The least would be cyp or enth.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
I too got the same symptoms after only 3 shots of a testphenylprop/mast mix. It was 150/50 T/M per ml. So at 3 shots of 2ml each, it was about 900mg of test at that point, and they got painful and started to develop the hard tissue under one. It took me almost two weeks to get my hands on nolva as the discussion amongst myself and a well respected vet was that there wouldn’t be a need for an AI and/or nolva. Bottom line was it still went away with the nolva protocol which I hit it with in a week or so. None the less it was scary and freaked me out. Of course I had some other more serious consequences of the cycle that took precedance on my train of thought like a cellulitis type infection and crazy heart rate etc.

       I quit the cycle right before the fourth shot was due and got my ass back to normal after a real fright there for a while as my quad took on otherworldly inflammation that had me really worried about infection too. 

           Anyway, you'll be fine as long as you have the adex and nolva right there. Because as Cortes and I can vouch, even when the treatment for it is delayed a bit, it can still be brought under control. So if the goods are right there, don't sweat waiting for the symptoms, since you can slam it with the stuff right away and be right as rain.

                    ToneBone [/quote]

Yeah again by all means I respect guys who fear gyno. I have nothing against having a-dex and nolva on hand from day one of the cycle. In fact I would encourage it. Im just saying don’t pre-treat a problem that might never emerge. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
I too got the same symptoms after only 3 shots of a testphenylprop/mast mix. It was 150/50 T/M per ml. So at 3 shots of 2ml each, it was about 900mg of test at that point, and they got painful and started to develop the hard tissue under one. It took me almost two weeks to get my hands on nolva as the discussion amongst myself and a well respected vet was that there wouldn’t be a need for an AI and/or nolva. Bottom line was it still went away with the nolva protocol which I hit it with in a week or so. None the less it was scary and freaked me out. Of course I had some other more serious consequences of the cycle that took precedance on my train of thought like a cellulitis type infection and crazy heart rate etc.

       I quit the cycle right before the fourth shot was due and got my ass back to normal after a real fright there for a while as my quad took on otherworldly inflammation that had me really worried about infection too. 

           Anyway, you'll be fine as long as you have the adex and nolva right there. Because as Cortes and I can vouch, even when the treatment for it is delayed a bit, it can still be brought under control. So if the goods are right there, don't sweat waiting for the symptoms, since you can slam it with the stuff right away and be right as rain.

                    ToneBone 

Yeah again by all means I respect guys who fear gyno. I have nothing against having a-dex and nolva on hand from day one of the cycle. In fact I would encourage it. Im just saying don’t pre-treat a problem that might never emerge. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
[/quote]

Ok, Jazz, here you go. Here is a great example of what we were talking about in the other thread. 2 experienced guys with different advice. Can you see how easy it is to see that both of them are coming from common ground, and that both of them are right, and that it is easy to make a decision even though both experienced guys are saying different things? You see what I mean by it aint that complicated?

Thanks for the advice guys. World, the reason I�??m wanting to run it 10 weeks instead of 12 weeks is simply ensure a better recovery. I�??m not sure how much of a difference the extra 2 weeks would make, but I�??m guessing that you are suggesting that its not that big of a difference as far as recovery is concerned. If this is true, then I will go ahead and stretch it to 12 weeks.

Sapasion, what you are saying makes a lot of sense, so will hold off on the Adex and/or Nolva until I need it.

Cortes I do see your point and what you are saying is true however, I was coming from a slightly different perspective in the other thread. Nevertheless, you are correct.

The reason I said to run it 12 weeks as opposed to 10 is the fact those 2 weeks will help improve your gains. I’m not sorry to tell ya either, since so many others have advised you regarding this, but don’t expect a whole damn lot from 400mg. Unless of course you are a superhuman freak like ToneBone. Course then again, he was running prop so that makes a big difference too.

The fact of the matter is your cycle is underdosed no matter how long you run it. The difference in shutdown between 8 and 10 weeks is actually quite astounding to me. And 400mg/wk will do little more than give you a nasty recovery…

What I am getting at here Jazz is the fact you need to increase your dose to 5-600mg/wk and then you either need to increase it more and run a shorter cycle, or keep it there and run it for 12 weeks.

To spell it out for you, here’s what I suggest:

450-600mg/wk for 12 weeks

OR

700-900mg/wk for 8 weeks

Both of which would be followed by a test taper for your recovery effort. The shorter cycle would only require 4 weeks of stasis, whereas the other would require 6-7. As for the taper itself, I always recommend 5 weeks as it has seemed to be the most effective in some trainees of mine and myself.

Regarding the ancillaries-- have them, but don’t use them quite yet. Adex is always good shit to have around in case you get some estro related sides. And don’t be surprised if they come quick too, you have a decent amount of bodyfat on you and that could certainly aggravate those side effects.

If and when you do start Adex, a dose anywhere from .25-.5mg EOD would start you well. Save the nolva for post cycle (during the stasis) and use it only if you have gyno, otherwise stick to just test.

Hope this clears something up for you.

World

Yes it does clear up a lot World! I will go ahead and up the dose to 500mg/week and run it for 12 weeks.

I dont mind at all increasing the length of the cycle or even pinning a few more times as long as full recovery is still attainable.

I just wanted to stick to a moderately low dosage for my first cycle so if I decide to run another I will have lots of room for increases. However, I completely understand your logic.

And for the 5 week taper, are you saying run the last 2 weeks of that at 20mg/week?

The taper should go along the lines of this:

80, 60, 40, 20, 20 and then you’re ready to start a new cycle. SERMs during the actual taper are advised against, so keep that in mind.

Like I said though, you’ll want to increase your dose regardless of your length. If you want to run a 12 weeker, 600mg would give some nice gains.

Regarding what you said about increases for future cycles, keep in mind it’s not always the amount of test that will determine your effectiveness, but also what you run with it. Recall that I ran an 8 weeker recently, but threw in two weeks of tren at 50-75mg ED and has unbelievable results while running a moderate dose of 800mg test enan a week.

What are your plans regarding training? I am of the belief I helped Jake out significantly and am currently doing the same for Randizzo. Take their progress as you may, but keep in mind I’ll help ya out if you deem that necessary.

World

Thanks World! This may surprise you, but I actually did your recommened training program for about 2weeks. It was very intense! However, I was dieting to loose weight at the time so I found it to be a bit too intense at the time because I wasnt getting a lot of carbs with my meals Or maybe i could have just reduced the volume, i dunno.

In any case, my workout will very closely resemble what you have recommended to Jake, randizzo, and myself because i think it is a great program and it definately will work. Maybe just a few tweaks here and there.

Im sticking with mostly compound movements with a few isolations like bicep curls and calf raises.

Well talk to Randizzo about what he’s doing and that should work for you.

[quote]Jazz_Man1898 wrote:
Yes it does clear up a lot World! I will go ahead and up the dose to 500mg/week and run it for 12 weeks.

I dont mind at all increasing the length of the cycle or even pinning a few more times as long as full recovery is still attainable.

I just wanted to stick to a moderately low dosage for my first cycle so if I decide to run another I will have lots of room for increases. However, I completely understand your logic.

And for the 5 week taper, are you saying run the last 2 weeks of that at 20mg/week?[/quote]

500mgs at 12 weeks is plenty. It should get you some great gains, provided you eat and train right. I had a terrific cycle running this with some dbol at the front.

And yeah, do at least 5 weeks stasis and 80/60/40/30/20 or something very close to it. This worked great for me, too.

Ok! Thanks again guys for the advice. You have been very helpful. I will definately start a detailed cycle log when the time comes and keep you guys posted.

Jazz