Hematocrit/Hemoglobin Issues

Whenever I do a cycle, my bloodwork always has these shooting over the max. Is there some way to keep these levels down? The doc always thinks I’ve got a bone marrow disease, poly-wtf-he-calls-it.

I’ve thought of giving blood. Would that lower these levels? Seems to me that the proportions would be the same no matter what the blood volume.

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[quote]AynRandLuvr wrote:
Whenever I do a cycle, my bloodwork always has these shooting over the max. Is there some way to keep these levels down? The doc always thinks I’ve got a bone marrow disease, poly-wtf-he-calls-it.

I’ve thought of giving blood. Would that lower these levels? Seems to me that the proportions would be the same no matter what the blood volume.

[/quote]

This was just discussed in a thread in the Over 35 forum:

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_senior/trt_too_many_rbc?pageNo=0#2529127

The condition is called secondary polycythemia: “Secondary polycythemia is caused by either natural or artificial increases in the production of erythropoietin, hence an increased production of erythrocytes.”

The usual treatment is phlebotomy (a blood draw, just like donating blood). You may not be eligible to donate blood if you’re on a cycle or PCT. For example, I take dutasteride to control DHT. Dutasteride is a mutagenic, meaning that it might cause birth deformities if my blood were to be transfused into a pregnant woman. Arimidex is another medication that might disqualify you from donating.

Your doctor can prescribe a therapeutic blood draw, or a series if necessary. The blood is discarded, instead of going into the blood supply.

Polycythemia is a serious condition. EPO, just like polycythemia, causes a rise in Hct/Hemoglobin, which increases endurance by “thickening” the blood. Unfortunately, this can lead to strokes or heart attacks.

“Writing in a London newspaper, Phil Liggett, the veteran cycling broadcaster, pointed out that as many as 100 international racers have died prematurely during the past decade, most from heart attacks. The likely cause, Liggett argued, was the ongoing abuse of EPO…”

http://outside.away.com/outside/news/200406/cycling_epo_1.html

John

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BBB with the low down. Thanks

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
But you have to consider the the cyclists were pushing themselves right to the very edge (and over it) of exhaustion and dehydration.

The normal patient will experience headaches, diffuse itching and tinnitus, before approaching MI territory.

BBB[/quote]

Agreed. I overstated the danger of an MI event, although in several instances the cyclist was not competing when he died - e.g. Zanette after a visit to the dentist; both Salanson and Sermon in their sleep (not during a multi-day competition); etc.

Cyclists have pushed the envelope in sports doping; I think because the sport demands almost superhuman endurance and recovery.

John

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
But you have to consider the the cyclists were pushing themselves right to the very edge (and over it) of exhaustion and dehydration.

The normal patient will experience headaches, diffuse itching and tinnitus, before approaching MI territory.

BBB[/quote]

Good info! You a doc?

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Im a road/cross rider/racer cyclist. When I developed a blue cold nose during the summer, I visited my doctor. He ran a complete blood test, then I went to a onocoligist/hematologist (blood Dr). I was dx with Polycythemia Vera, my bone marrow makes way to much red blood cells.

First thing I thought, GREAT, natural EPO. WRONG. My bloos was so thick and rich, I was a stroke/heart attack waiting to happen. I had so many immature red cells that my oxygen numbers was way low. I thought that since I trained and raced so hard that my numbers would be this high anyway. Again I was wrong. I have all of my blood numbers. I have been taking Hydrea (chemo) for several months now. It took increasing the Hydrea from 500mg, to 1000mg to 1500mg to get my blood numbers under control.

So this is real. Polycythemia Vera in my case is very real.

[quote]AynRandLuvr wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
But you have to consider the the cyclists were pushing themselves right to the very edge (and over it) of exhaustion and dehydration.

The normal patient will experience headaches, diffuse itching and tinnitus, before approaching MI territory.

BBB[/quote]

Good info! You a doc?

[/quote]

I have what the Doc calls " stress Polycythemia" and Phlebotomy is just what I’ve been doing for some time now. I go to the doc’s hematology center, they check my blood count and draw blood accordingly, usually a pint every two weeks. Funny note, my blood’s SO thick that they need to use an 18 ga needle to get it to flow. I asked the doc “WTF is that, an 18ga needle?”
His response was “How the hell do you know what an 18 ga needle looks like?” I turned red and giggled, “just a lucky guess?” He gave me a long hard look and said no more!
I think HE knows why my blood’s so thick, LOL.

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LMFAO!