T Nation

HELP WITH UPDATES


#1

Hi guys here are some updates...


#2

Alright Fellas, So I apologize for the lack of updates but this experience has been really stressful and time consuming... Most recently, I was given androgel 5g with no AI after my labs from back in November december and Febuary 09 showed a decline in TOTAL TEST from (460 > 340 > 240). What is interesting is I have test dating back to 06 where my PROLACTIN was 39 ( 5-18) and my ESTRADIOL was 44 ( 8- 40) and my test was 560! funny thing it was higher with higher estrogen and prolactin gets me? haha BTW Im turing 23 this month!

My ESTROGEN and PROLACTIN has always been HIGH normal... After doing CABERGOLINE with my original endo for some time and succesfully lowering my so called prolactinoma to normal ranges a year has went by without being on Cabergoline and the prolactin has tappered down to normal ranges but still didnt raise any T infact its less then original... but the E2 has still been in the 39-45 range ( 15-50). I was shoveled ANDRGOGEL 5g with no ai by my new doc and told to return in 3 months... I decided to take the script and situation to my old doctor who i no showed a few times... He issued me a script for 1mg arimidex daily, which thanks to ksman I learned how to find my own sweet spot... ( the way i did that was by snapping my fingers and journaling my daily erections as well as starting low with ai and test that dose for 7 days then go from there) So my original doctor said I should pick one endo and not bounce around and if i was going to come back to the clinic then he wanted me to do a full panel before starting it to have an even more accurate point and to take a $4,000 sleep apnea test which came out with mild sleep apnea so i have to purchase a mask now and supposely through very small medical literature it is associated with Low T. So i did! I also took a daily journal if anyone has questions about the whole experience. The Test read as :

2-23-09 ( the day i was diagnosed with secondary or primary low T??)
Testerone,total 240 ( 241- 827)
Prolactin 13 ( 2-18)
Cortisol Normal
ACTH in range
T Free 106
FSH 2.1 ( 1.6-8.0)
LH 5.5 ( 1.5-9.3)

3-23-09 ( the day before starting androgel,yes before)
Estrogen 31 (8-45)
Testoterone Free and Total 546 ( 250-1100) was 240 2 months prior?
Free TEST % 2.91 H ref range ( 1.5- 2.2) How can this be so high?
FSH 3.7 ( 1.6-8.0)
LH 6.5 (1.5-9.3)
Prolactin 12.3 ( 2-18)
IGF-I 194 (126-382)
T4,Free 1.2 (.8-1.8)
TSH 3rd Generation 2.56 ( .40-4.50)

One month on andrgoel 7.5G and 10g for the last week: he only tested for a few things
4-27-09
TEST FREE 140.2 ( 35-155)
TEST TOTAL 600 ( 250-1100)
ESTRADIOL 16 ( 13-54)

So looking at the test,
I can see that E2 sucessfully went down and yes at one point when i was taking .5 arimidex E3d i was geting some gyno and lots of water bloat hot flashes too so i uped it to .5 ED and felt hella good I also raised my dose of androgel from 5g to 7.5g in 3 days then after three weeks raied it to 10g for the last week...
FREE TEST went down? and TOTAL T went up 50? THE THING THAT IS KINDA INTERESTING IS THE ENDO DID NOT TELL ME TO TAKE THE TEST WITHIN 4-6 HOURS OF APPLICATION. I ENDED UP TAKING THE BLOOD TEST 16 HOURS AFTER APPLYING ALMOST A WHOLE DAY WENT BY AND IT WAS STILL 600!!! SO DO YOU GUYS THINK WE COULD ASSUME THAT WITHIN 4-6 HOURS THE TOTAL T WAS ACTUALLY HIGHER THEN 600 say maybe 800-900?? I READ IT TAPERS DOWN JUST LIKE OUR NATURAL PRODUCTION DOES THROUGHTOU THE DAY????

MY SMALL EXPERIENCE:

The whole month I really didnt feel too much different but the last week I started geting some real good erections and I did get stronger and less passive, moody, watery until uped AI, btw I am a TRAINER and I pay great attention and record any kind of changed date... I feel like i did notice when the agel tappered down towards the next day application I feel that it took 3-4weeks just to feel decent. There was alot of brain fog towards teh beging and I was out trying to find the sweet spot of AI and TRT together... I started feeling best after raising my AI to .5 every day and doing 7.5-10 gs agel daily. My daily application finally got on a consistent schedule which I believe helped with the feeling I had as well as the surgical glove used to adminster the gel. Rub to spread then let dry from wet is the correct directions i believe. I was given the scrit origially for 5g androgel with no AI by the get out of my office in 1 min doctor(new) and i raised my dosages to 7.5 which ran out in 2 weeks.Luckily Insurance covered me and I was able to get a refill for the following 2 weeks. THe new doctor felt that my pretreatment test was good enough to get off androgel for now... He did not say to not take the arimidex. I believe that this increase in T might have arose from the arimidex effects itself IM not sure? He does not know why I was tested for total t 240 in feb then in 2 months raised to 546... Said it could be a life style change? So I am off the AGEL and I FEEL LIKE SHIT lol DUDE I MEAN I FEEL LIKE SHIT. I have no will to workout, I have bad brain fog and confusion, my Madden skillz suck asss now lol.... I have NO LIBIDO and of course I bet its cuz my HPTA isnt functioning as it should...or KSMAN that my E2 is wiped out because im on AI but no longer the AGEL so therefore it isnt eleveating my levels so E2 drops considerbly ... THE DOCTOR SAID NO PCT OR ANYTHING IS NECESSARY THAT WITHIN A MONTH I SHOULD GO BACK TO BEING NORMAL... WELL I CANT WAIT A MONTH GUYS... I HAVE DONE MY RESEARCH... SPOKE TO MODERATORS... CALLED PHARMASIST... Based off my blood work how should I handle this problem?
1) take HCG for a month > Then CLomid 15 days > Nolva 15 days
2) since this is like doing a mild small cycle should i just take CLOMID for month?
3) Since i still havce AI i should I tapper the dose to .5 e3d and adjust until sweet spot is reached?
4) Should I wait til the 14th of MAy when insurance kicks back in Taking androgel 7.5G and schedule an apt with the original doc who threw it at me...
5) Should I stay on Ai, Schedule an apt with doc, demand for protocol to come off AGEL and demand HCG?
6.Being that my TOTAL T levels were 600 15 hours after application, should I assume that within 4-8 hours I was at really HIGH NORMAL LEVELS go back on androgel 7.5 for a few months and put on some size? I did notice my strength, focus and I was extremely pumped after Workouts. I wont lie it was a great feeling, my mooods were not consistent though until i got on a regular schedule with the app timing and AI, that was the only downfall and sweats bad!!!!

Bushido, Ksman or any other of you remarkable brains please any advice or intake on all this is much appreciated. I hope this entry helps anyone who has the same issues i have. If anyone has questions or specifics about the agel or experience I can answer those for you. Thanks so much guys. Please respond to this and give me whatever your thoughts are!


#3

You do need to pick one doctor, get a script for androgel, or PREFERABLY injectable test E or Cyp

Get a script for Adex

Get a script for HCG

If you can talk them into letting you inject intramuscular at home you can do your injections 2-3 times a week to keep the levels pretty stable, run the adex at a reliable long term dosage, and run the HCG throughout.
That would be great.

If you cant get all that, go for androgel, and adex, which is basically what you already have, and stay on them.

If I were you I would probably just buy some research grade letro, so I could run it long term for cheap.

And I would self administer low dose using "no so legal" test.