T Nation

Help with TRT Protocol


#1

Hello new to the forum but looking for some input on my current trt protocol and bloodwork.

Have been taking 150mg test cyp split into two shots Monday/Thursday for about 5 months now

Originally I was taking a very small amount of liquidex .25 maybe once a week but had what I thought was low e2 symtoms. Mainly severe mental symtoms such as anxiety/depression obsessive thoughts so bad that I had to take xanax for a little while.

(History of anxiety) - trt has helped with a lot of social anxiety issues but has made other issues arise.

I have stopped the armidex but my current bloods show my e2 is slightly elevated and I’m starting to get a lot of brain fog/lethargy anxiety again some bloat and no motivation to workout.

I have read some people say the zinc/dim route is worth a try but others say your better of taking a very small amount of ai.

What are some opinions and suggestions on e2 levels and please let me know how my other levels look as well


#2

We do not know enough about you!

Thyroid has a huge effect on energy, mood, libido and fat gain/loss. Low thyroid function can really limit TRT gains.

TSH not done?
TSH should be close to 1.0
T3, T4, fT3, fT4 should be mid-range or better.

Are you iodine deficient from not using iodized salt?
SEE LAST PARAGRAPH.

Total cholesterol = 125 is way too low. Ideal=180. If using statin drug, reduce dose. Extreme diet can be changed?

RBC was high. Avoid iron fortified foods: breads, pasta, rice, cereals and some vitamins - read labels.

Hematocrit [HTC] getting worrying, mostly from RBC. Avoid dehydration, especially for your labs. Track HTC.

Your lab display is misleading. Everything ‘normal’ is shown dead in the middle. E2 can be over-range and dead normal. Better to have a text display.

Some data is cut off.

What time of day for AM cortisol? Should be 8AM or 1 hour after waking up.

"small amount of liquidex .25 maybe once a week"
It is very important to be on a steady dose for E2 lab work. It takes a steady dose for a week to get to steady/final serum anastrozole levels, a simple drug half-life consideration.

Lets assume that you are an anastrozole over-responder and you need 1/4th of the expected doses. So instead of 1.5mg/week, you need ~.4mg/week or .2mg with each T injection. You can expect to feel a good change in about one week if E2 is getting near E2=22pg/ml. Do labs in two weeks, but if you feel great, what’s the hurry? The value of the the labs for dose refinement is not better than your dose compliance.


#3

Sorry do not have the full report on paper

Tsh t3 t4 is all in the attached pics tho and all look mid range

Tsh is 1.85

21 years old -
180
5’9

t levels were 280,340,360 I think was my highest over the last few years

Tried clomid therapy which worked but once I came off my numbers went down even lower.

Did a test e dbol cycle out of pure frustration with a successful pct but when I finished pct developed severe panic attacks that didn’t go away until starting my Trt

Last month I tried adding 250iu 2x a week of hcg and developed severe depression every time I would inject… which went away as soon as I discontinued. But I’m not sure it was from hcg or from driving my e2 to low with arimidex because I would take the arimidex on injection day.

I stopped everything but the testosterone and things were looking up but now I’m worried my e2 is too high.

It’s way to much to get into I guess
My main question is with a sensitive e2 at 44 … would that warrant an ai

I donate blood frequently to keep hemo in check
Clean diet
Lift 4-5 days a week.


#4

Iodine?
Body temperatures?
TSH=1.85 too high.

Anastrozole dose depends on your serum T levels.
With hGG, dose could have been too high.
Some are anastrozole over-responders who need 1/4th the expected dose.

If is rare that hCG has a negative effect like that, but some are exceptions.

Do the math re midrange. The displays are misleading. fT4=1.02 is well below 1.25, fT3 is a bit below 3.2, T3=86 is well below 225/2 =112.5 You have to pay more attention to details avoid minimalism. See the thyroid basics sticky.


#5

Not sure about iodine I do not avoid salt entirely but do watch my sodium

Never really had body temp issues until lately with some flushing and red hot ears.

Maybe this will help


#6

Please measure oral body temperatures at the suggested times of day.
Not the same as what you refer too.

fT3=1.02 is a problem

The only way you get iodine is from iodized salt in your kitchen and at the table. Prepared foods and restaurant foods do not have iodized salt. If your salt use is less than average, you will need iodine supplementation.

I think that thyroid is at the heart of your issue and this seems to be iodine deficiency. How long has your salt use been reduced? Do you even have iodized salt in your home. If not, others that you live will will also be affected.


#7

I did not react well to Ai’s. DIM works for me. brought it down from 30 to 16. Sometimes I have to back off because it does go too low with DIM.

However an AI will prevent free test from converting to estrogen (more free test!) but DIM will only increase the metabolism of estrogen (from bad to good). It doesn’t block the conversion.


#8

Yeah I feel like I always have a problem when I start taking arimidex but I feel like I’ve blown past my sweet spot and it is now too high.

55 serum
And 44 sensitive.

Just started dim 3 days ago so I guess will see I hope it’s enough to control this.

How much do you take a day ?


#9

I go by how I feel. So I may go a week taking it every other day, or double up if I drank. I’d start with the 2 pills twice a day and see if your morning woods return. It works pretty fast. I’m only on 70 a week total so I don’t need to take it as often or as much.


#10

Been on the dim for about 2 weeks now only taking 1 serving a day (natures way dim+) re tested and my total e2 has not moved from 50 not sure wether to double up or get an AI.
Noticing Libido, poor erections,fat gain [quote=“alphagunner, post:9, topic:231647”]
I
[/quote]


#11

Definitely take the 2 capsules twice a day and see what happens. That’s how I started using it and I got results quickly.
Give it a try before you use an AI, in my opinion. They come with their own host of problems. Clotting, Liver enzymes, all that nonsense.


#12

I just noticed you said my free t 3 is 1.02 is a problem? On my tests posted above my free t 3 is 3.0. I picked up a liquid iodine supplement after what you told me as I don’t think I get iodine. But does it really look like a I am iodine deficient at all?