T Nation

Help with Training, Nutrition, Everything


Coach Thib and guys,
I am working out for 10 months and i look like crap!!!I really need your help because i dont know what i am doing wrong!My body has changed since i started but it i really looks like i workout more my chin than my body!So i ll tell you exactly what i am/was doing and please help me!!!

i am 18 years old,6'2 ,215 pounds and 17% bodyfat.My lifts are Bench: 240 , Squat: 305 , Deadlift:350.Also i can do 8 chin ups.I workout 5 times per week and my schedule looks like this: Monday:Upper Body,Tuesday:lower body(squat based), thursday :upper body, friday:lower body(deadlift based).The upper body workouts are something like westside for skinny bastards with 5/3/1 for the main lifts.

Generally i use 5/3/1 for all the main lifts.i do a lot of cardio because i am studying sports science so i have to take part in many sports. for 6 months i was doing 4 hours of swimming per week,4 hours basketball , and 4 hours gymnastics,and for the rest of the 4 months i am doing 3 hours soccer,3 hours volleyball,3 hours track sports and 3 hours dancing.

now my nutrition.I eat 4 and sometimes 5 meals a day and i eat pretty much the same shit everyday: breakfast: 50 grams of oatmeal,some honey,300 ml whole milk and 1 scoop 100% whey. 2nd meal: 1 can of tuna,200gram mixed green veggies and 2 spoons olive oil. Post workout meal: 1 scoop 100% whey,300 ml whole milk, and meal 4: 400grams low fat greek yogurt and 15 nuts.3 times per week i will eat one extra meal at the dining hall which is : rice or potatoes with chicken or fish or beef and a veggies salad.

i dont usually have a cheat meal because i have acne and most of sweets affect it.Maybe once ot twice a month i would eat a piece of local traditional sweets.Thats all.Please tell me what i am doing wrong and how to correct it because i am tired of looking like crap.Sorry for this long and tiring post and sorry for my English its not my native language.Any help will be really apreciated.


What weight did you start out at? What was your body comp like before you started lifting?


Pics would be very useful.


when i first started i was 240 pounds with 22% bodyfat.I will upload pics as soon as possible...


Ok can I ask what your goals are?

It looks like you do have a decent amount of muscle mass on you but I can see what you dont like.

Your love handles are pretty dominant which im gonna guess is whats annoying you, personally I would do a fat loss baised diet and program for 10 - 12 weeks, shooting to lose .5 of a pound too 1 pound per week.

After the 12 weeks, take a break from the diet for 2 weeks and asses where your at.

Like its not all bad dude, you have a good base to work with but if you are unhappy with the way you look then I would say go ahead and diet for a little bit too see what happens.

Again I cant really help, nor can anyone until you let us know what your specific goals are i.e. get stronger, leaner, bigger etc and if you havent decided this yet then there is your first problem.


My short term goal ( untill summer) is to get leaner and if possible maintain my strength or get stronger.But i also want to put mass on certain areas like traps,shoulders and arms.I think this parts look really small and weak compared to the rest of my body.
And you are 100% right.I hate my love handles and generally all that belly fat i have.Also , i dont like the way my chest looks.
So i would say that my goal is to be lean,symmetric and strong.


for me you are going in the good way... 10 months you have lost 25 pounds, that's very good.
Check if your lift are better that when you started, it will mean you gain strengh.

I don't think you should panic, you are in the good way.

just continue what you are doing if you continue to loose pounds and your lift are going up.


Scorpion33,yes my lifts have increased a lot since i started except the bench press.The squat increased 80 pounds,deadlift 100 pounds and bench press only 40 pounds but i am ok with it.for about a month and a half i have stopped losing fat.

But generally i excepted to lose more,you know most guys lose 25-30 pounds in 3 months and it took me 10 so...Whatever,complaining about it wont do me anything i must do something.I am thinking about changing my program and my diet and here i want your help and advice guys.I thought about a diet which would look like this :

Breakfast:3 whole eggs,20 grams turkey bacon,20 grams low fat cheese and an orange.
Snack :whey protein shake and an apple.
Lunch:fish/chicken/beef with rice/potatoes and salad.
Post workout: 2 slices whole wheat bread with honey and whey protein shake
Before bed:200grams cottage cheese,20grams turkey bacon,20 grams low fat cheese and 1 spoon olive oil.

Do you think it will help me?Should i change something or even change it all and make a different approach?
Now ,what should i do for my training program?Do you think that a bodybuilding program will help me more than this one? Also I can have even 2 sessions per day,i have alot of free time!
Thanks everyone for all the replies so far and thanks in advance for the new ones :slight_smile:


forgot to write my training program lol
Upper body workout 1:
Bench press 5/3/1
Dumbell bench press 2x20-25
Superset: barbell row and tricep rope pushdowns 4x15
Superset: Dumbell Shrug with lateral raises 3x15

Lower body workout 1 :
Squats 5/3/1
Lunges 3x8 each leg
weighted 45 degree back raises 4x10
weighted sit ups 4x10

Upper body workout 2:
Chin ups 3xMax
Lat pull downs 2x20-25
Dumbell shoulder press 2x15-20
superset: dumbell skull crushers with hammer curls 4x8
superset: dips with inverted rows 3x10

Lower Body workout 2:
Deadlifts 5/3/1
lying leg curl 4x10
weighted 45 degree back raises 4x10
hanging leg raises 4x10


well I don't want repeat myself, but it's probably better to not loose 20-30 pounds in 3 months, those guys loose a lot of muscle.

You eat well, your training seem to be good, for me you are in the good way... just be patient.
Or add some light cardio when you are not training.


I would lose all the carbs for 12 weeks. So drop the fruit and all the starch like the potatoes and bread. Replace it all with green veggies and watch the spare tire melt away.

Add in some BCAAs and some Creatine to keep the muscle mass you worked so hard for.


Ok ,i will eat veggies instead of fruit and only rice no potatoes.But after working out shouldnt i eat carbs?Also a bodybuilding split will be better or worse for my purpose?And if i do the same program that i am doing what should i add to increase a little my mass on traps,shoulders and arms?


don't cut all your carbs, when I see your diet you don't have so many carbs in it. Take them around your workout instead.
the days you are not training cut it around 80/100g
Put a lot of effort in your workout, and for me please don't do split.

If you start focus on full body (3 days a week) or upper/lower (4 days a week)
and focus on big weight.


Why advise this young guy to go to extreme?

Don't cut ALL your carbs. Keep your diet as it is right now. Add some cardio (half to 1 hour every day) to your regime and see how that effects your body. If nothing happens, then cut some carbs from your diet (around 50 grams will do, since you don't have much to begin with) and see what happens.

Don't listen to people like nwiles, since he clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

About putting mass on your traps, shoulders and arms. Well, then you should do alot of overhead work for shoulders. Just alot of overhead pressing.
Add barbell shrugs to your training regime (2 times/week) and go HEAVY! Do something for your biceps if you expect them to grow.

I'm doing something like this for shoulders/traps/arms right now and it's working quite fine (for me atleast);


-Push-press: RAMP the weight. Do sets of 3 reps. 5 working sets with weight 85%-90% of MAX
-Face pulls in between the push-presses. Do around 5 sets of 10-15 reps. (usually done while ramping)
-HEAVY shrugs with bb or db. 5 sets of 12 reps. All out!
-Lateral raises (sitting or standing) pyramid. Start with 20% of max for 25 reps. Right away with 30% for 20 reps. Then 40 % for 20 reps. Then 60% for 15 reps. Then 70% for 12 reps. (The numbers are just an example)
Do 2 sets of those. They destroy your shoulders.
-Superset front raises (Kai Greene style) with machine laterals to get that final pump and blood into your delts.
I sometimes add seated behind neck presses if feeling good. Those done before lateral raises.


  • DB hammer curls 5x8 or 10 reps (ramp weight) and superset it with
  • Rope pushdowns 5x10 reps (ramp weight)

  • CGBP ramping weight for 5 working sets. reps around 8-10.

  • Preacher curl for 3 working sets. Reps around 10-15

  • As finisher skull crushers supersetted with DB curls while sitting.

Workouts should last around 1 hr.

Good luck dude!


You think cutting carbs is extreme? Hardly dude. Since I have no idea what I'm talking about then the fact that I cut 40lbs in 12 weeks is probably just a fluke?

It's obvious this guy is a closet eater and isn't honest with himself. A little cheat here, a little cheat there and suddenly your intake for the day jumped 800 - 1500 calories.

The system works for everybody, if it isn't working him, he isn't being honest with himself. We all do it.


And why are you suggesting more cardio and more time under the bar when this game of body comp is 80% nutrition. Making him bust his balls even harder is not the answer whatsoever. Those 40lbs I cut was by simply lifting heavy. Zero cardio involved... I won't go near the stuff.

This is clearly what is passing his lips.


There are probably a lot of things that you could do to improve your progress.

Make your weight lifting workouts a priority. If you have to do a bunch of cardio/sports activity throughout the day, you should be lifting weights first thing in the morning. If you aren't hitting the weight room with everything you've got, you aren't going to get maximum benefit from it.

Get in a real post workout meal. This might be the time to hit the dining hall, especially if you have a buffet style dining hall where you can load up on the good stuff. I like to sip whey mixed with water during my workouts, but post workout meat, veggies and starch seems to work way better.

You probably don't need to do any kind of radical low carb approach, or spend too much time worrying about dairy or gluten unless you notice physiological side effects (drowsiness, bloating, headaches etc.) from consuming these foods. My guess is that if you prioritize your weightlifting and eat like you mean it you will start looking a lot better.


HES BEEN LIFTING FOR 10 MONTHS AND STARTED IN HORRIBLE SHAPE. There is not wrong with his progress. Its actually pretty good considering someone who started in the position he did doesnt have great genetics to begin with.

OP. BTW I would ignore those bodyfat % numbers. I doubt theyre accurate. Use them to gauge progress (make sure you use the same method each time) but do not believe the actual number. The number doesnt matter anyway

You need to get a lot stronger. That will come with time. Youre doing alright.


wait. youre trying to lose weight??



I laughed so hard at your surprise I almost died.