T Nation

Help with Thyroid (Maybe Hypo) KSman and Others


#1


I have almost all the symptoms of hypothyroidism, but my exams TSH and T4 are apparently normal, which is what 99% of doctors here from Brazil use to find such a "disease". But recently discovered that even with normal tsh, normal t4 I can be with hypothyroidism (I believe its because of reverse T3, this information are correct?)

What else affects me (and believe everyone) is erectile dysfunction (difficulty in maintaining a 100% full erection). I started hormone replacement (testosterone) and use of anastrozole pharmacy and I think in one or two days using anastrozole I already went back to have my morning erections (did not have nearly 8 months), and I'm able to have a fuller erections throughout the day without cialis (which had not happened for a long time!!!), but as it was not yet perfect, I'm sure that can improve!

The symptoms of low testosterone and hypothyroidism are nearly equal. But then I saw a symptom of hypothyroidism that almost made me fall off the chair.
"Missing Outer Eyebrows"

I realize for some time that the side of my eyebrow is thinner (less quantity) that the rest of it, especially compared to other people, but never knew why this, and now I read this symptom and fit in with almost all other I believe you may have hypothyroidism too .. (despite having tsh and t4 "normal"), what do you think?

follows the thyroid tests that have (note: I sent to be tested for free t3 and t3 reverse, but will only be ready here 12 days, but based on the tests that have, what do you think?)

ULTRA-SENSITIVE TSH - 1.62 UUI / mL (ref: 0.35 to 4.94)
T3 TOTAL - 96 ng / dl (ref: 70-170)
TOTAL T4 - 5 g / dl (ref: 4.5 to 12)
FREE T4 - 0.94 ng / dl (ref: 0.60 to 1.50)

the results seem a bit low, what do you think? if consisted that have a lot of reverse t3 the best treatment? t3 alone or together with t4?

here are some pictures of my brow, I do not know if it really is hypothyroidism, but it is at least strange. what do you think?


#2

TSH should be closer to 1.0
T3, T4, fT3, fT4 should all be near mid-range and yours are low.

Please read these stickies:

  • thyroid basics
  • advice for new guys

Have you been using iodized salt for years? If not, you are probably deficient and you would try taking iodine in some manner and not take Rx thyroid meds now.

If you have high rT3, you would need more T3 and less T4. Added T4 can make things worse by increasing T4–>rT3

Important: Measure your body temperature when you first wake up and also during the middle of the afternoon. See the thyroid basics sticky.

You are correct about the eyebrows.


#3

the optimal amount of iodine per day? only iodized salt is possible?

here’s an example of iodized salt Brazil

Nutritional Information (1 g portion)
Amount per serving% DV (*)
Sodium 390mg 16%
Iodine 25mcg 19%

ie 0,025mg of iodine every 1g of salt … as I should consume?


#4

Depends on how much salt you use on your food or cooking. If you are iodine deficient, you need more.

In USA, RDA for males is 150mcg, micrograms

Body temperatures are the final answer.


#5

Body temperatures are answer for iodine deficient or hypothyroidism?


#6

Your body temperature is greatly determined by your metabolic rate that is controlled by the activity levels of the mitochondria inside all cells in your body and mitochondrial activity is controlled by fT3. If your body temperatures are low, your thyroid function is low.

Serum levels of fT3 need to be adequate and then fT3 needs to get inside your cells. If rT3 is elevated, rT3 blocks T3 receptors in the cell walls and body temperatures can be low even when fT3 is mid-range or higher. So body temperatures are the bottom line.

If you do not have enough iodine, TSH is increased to try to get back in balance. Sometimes we see TSH is elevated, but the other thyroid hormones are all good [mid-range] and body temperatures are good. But that is not seen very often. We mostly see problems with thyroid hormones when someone has not been using iodized salt.

Low body temperatures: We check twice a day. Some will have low body temps AM and PM, some low only in PM.

We can define low body temperatures as “hypothyroidism”. But doctors mostly have a flawed view of things. I use the term “functional hypothyroidism” as defined by low body temperatures indicating a problem at the cellular level, not needed to refer to lab results. Iodine deficiency leads to these problems and oddly enough, if prolonged, iodine deficiency can cause hypothyroidism that then progresses to hyperthyroidism, thyroid nodules that can progress to cancer. Doctors have a term for impair thyroid function - “subclinical hypothyroidism” which means that there is something going on but does not meet their criteria for medication.

I need to point out that we do not have any reports here of doctors ever asking about iodine intake; they simply prescribe a lifetime of thyroid medications in response to uncomplicated iodine deficiency.


#7

Hey, I got news and believe we found one of my problems. I did the blood test of free T3 and reverse T3 missing. I’m even scared of my reverse t3.

First of all, this last Thursday I went to my doctor and said I was pretty sure that was with hypothyroidism (When I said that I had done the tests of rT3 and fT3, but have not had the results) and showed again those exam results (those in the first post of this topic (and are low values)) and also said I have almost all the symptoms of hypo. Then he “give me” a very LOW dose of t4 and t3, 20mcg and 4mcg respectively, and lugol 5% (which contains iodine and iodeto). I will take 50mg a day (I think are 8 drops) for 14 days and I think that after these days i’ll down the dose to 12mg/day of iodo/iodeto.

As he did not have the results of examinations of rT3 and fT3, these doses of thyroid hormones and lugol were the safest things he could give me …

But the next day I had gone to the doctor I received the test results …

Free T3: 3,11pg / ml (2.5 to 3.9)
Reverse T3: 0.39 (from 0.10 to 0.35)

and if I do the ratio of fT3/rT3 should be> 20. my stay at 7.97 !!!

What I intended to do:
take 20mcg of T4 and 4mcg of T3 for 10 days.
50 mg of iodine/iodeto per day for 14 days and after that lowering the dose to 12 mg/day.
If i do not notice any difference/improvement with this protocol, thought to continue taking 20mcg of T4 and 4mcg of T3 AND ADD MORE 20-40mcg of T3 per day (or should I stop these 20mcg of T4?)

What would you recommend to i do to down the rT3 and increase fT3 and I improve?
All my problems (erectile dysfunction and etc) are because of that my thyroid? Because my rT3 is HORRIBLE, had not seen anyone with such a bad number so …

NOTE: I’m injecting 600mg of testosterone per week, but do not remember exactly how many days when I was injecting when i do the exams … inject testosterone may have increased my rT3 this much?

NOTE 2: measure my temperature for 8 minutes 3 days straight after waking up, without getting out of bed. and 3 days were 36.1�ºC(96.980�ºF)

NOTE 3: when I did these tests rT3 and fT3 I also did estradiol, which resulted in: 127pg / ml :OOO , this may have affected the rT3 too?


#8

When rT3 is elevated, more T4 creates more T4–>rT3

Go to the thyroid basics and find references to:
stress
illnesses
inflammation
infections
over straining
starvation diets
adrenal fatigue
Wilson’s book


#9

[quote]KSman wrote:
Your body temperature is greatly determined by your metabolic rate that is controlled by the activity levels of the mitochondria inside all cells in your body and mitochondrial activity is controlled by fT3. If your body temperatures are low, your thyroid function is low.

Serum levels of fT3 need to be adequate and then fT3 needs to get inside your cells. If rT3 is elevated, rT3 blocks T3 receptors in the cell walls and body temperatures can be low even when fT3 is mid-range or higher. So body temperatures are the bottom line.

If you do not have enough iodine, TSH is increased to try to get back in balance. Sometimes we see TSH is elevated, but the other thyroid hormones are all good [mid-range] and body temperatures are good. But that is not seen very often. We mostly see problems with thyroid hormones when someone has not been using iodized salt.

Low body temperatures: We check twice a day. Some will have low body temps AM and PM, some low only in PM.

We can define low body temperatures as “hypothyroidism”. But doctors mostly have a flawed view of things. I use the term “functional hypothyroidism” as defined by low body temperatures indicating a problem at the cellular level, not needed to refer to lab results. Iodine deficiency leads to these problems and oddly enough, if prolonged, iodine deficiency can cause hypothyroidism that then progresses to hyperthyroidism, thyroid nodules that can progress to cancer. Doctors have a term for impair thyroid function - “subclinical hypothyroidism” which means that there is something going on but does not meet their criteria for medication.

I need to point out that we do not have any reports here of doctors ever asking about iodine intake; they simply prescribe a lifetime of thyroid medications in response to uncomplicated iodine deficiency. [/quote]
I respect everything you say and I even went to you for advice about my low temp. Crazy thing is my thyroid is doing great now but I still have a crazy low temp. I wake up around the high 93s maybe low 94s. I never get over 96.9 anymore. I’ve had dozens of labs, doc tried thyroid drugs too, nothing ever helped. But I’ve always had super low body fat. I do eat well but if my thyroid were that bad I wouldn’t be this lean. I’m super thin. Although I do have dry skin and nails which is another symptom.

At the end of the day I still have normal test results, and super low bodyfat which indicates some sort of thyroid function. But I still never get over 96. It boggles me and all my docs.


#10

@KSman
I read about all this, I do not know 100% but I read.
what I wonder is YOUR opinion of what I should do? agree with the protocol in which I? to use only 40 ~ 60mcg of T3 and continue anastro?

@bpbob
you tried to use iodine and iodide? in 3 days using this I’ve had improvements in hormonal temperature


#11

At the end of the day I still have normal test results.
Really?

Below mid-range: T3 TOTAL - 96 ng / dl (ref: 70-170)
Below mid-range: TOTAL T4 - 5 g / dl (ref: 4.5 to 12)
OK: FREE T4 - 0.94 ng / dl (ref: 0.60 to 1.50)
OK: Free T3: 3,11pg / ml (2.5 to 3.9)
Reverse T3: 0.39 (from 0.10 to 0.35)

Your low body temps and tT3 are singing the same song.

What is status of iodine replenishment and body temperatures?

600mg T per week is insane and is not TRT. We know that TRT with hypothyroidism can create problems. Your E2 is too high and anastrozole dose is inadequate.


#12

@KSman
It was not me who said it hauahau
"At the end of the day I still have normal test results." other user said

What problems trt with hypothyroidism can create?

And You said the anastrozole dose is inadequate … That means I should increase or decrease? (For how much? Anastro or Letro?)
For the answer, remember that I’m using 600mg of testosterone / week