Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum. 23 years old. Right now I’m on week 10 of my first 12 week Test E cycle. Also taking Adex as AI, started with very low dose first week, then upped it just to be safe, during week 8 started feeling nipples getting itchy so I decided to up the adex for the remainder of the cycle. Looks like this:
Now I was planning on running a regular PCT of Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 2 weeks after my last jab, but I keep reading threads of people saying it completely kills their sex drive, and that is something I don’t want to go through since my girlfriend already got used to the godlike libido lol. So I came across P-22 Test Taper Protocol and decided it might be worth a try. This is what I plan on doing, please criticize and correct me if I’m wrong:
Stasis:
Week 13: Arimidex 0.5mg eod
Weeks 14-17: Test E 100mg/week
Weeks 14-17: Arimidex 0.25mg eod
Taper:
Week 18: Test E 80mg; Nolva 40mg ed
Week 19: Test E 60 mg; Nolva 40mg ed
Week 20: Test E 50 mg; Nolva 20mg ed
Week 21: Test E 40 mg; Nolva 20mg ed
Week 22: Test E 30 mg
Week 23: Test E 20 mg
Questions: P-22 says stasis should be 4-6 weeks in order to rid the body of any non-test AAS, but since I ran a Test E only cycle is it ok if just do 4 weeks? Is the stasis phase necessary at all if I ran a Test-only cycle?
P-22 also says using a SERM while tapering is fine, is Nolva at 40/40/20/20 ok? Or should I lower it to 20/20/20/20?
Finally, Since my gear is 250mg/ml, that means 0.1ml=25mg. How exactly do I measure such low doses? Do I just eye-ball it?
This is a real head scratcher for me. At first glance this look like a terrible PCT and on second glance its worse than terrible.
I will assume you are not on TRT. So here is my thinking.
As far as I know Nolva keep your high E2 from effecting your nipples, that is all it does.
But you took anastrozole to keep your E2 and prolactin in check so your E2 is not thru the roof as it would have been if you did not use anastrozole. Why use Nolva if you don’t have a high E2 problem? The whole Nolva at 40/40/20/20 is for guys that did not use anastrozole.
Now lets talk about you T taper. I see no reason to do this it will just delay your natural restart. Most guys on TRT taking 100mg/wk or less require no AI so I would not use and AI with those doses you will just crash your E2. Injecting anything less than 75mg/wk will suck don’t do it.
You do know that while you cycled you shut your natural production of T and sperm down to zero. The fastest way to get your natural T production back on line is to stop injecting. If you have access to HCG and syn FSH both will help you restart your balls. There is nothing I am aware of to help your pitutary gland to start producing LH and FSH that just takes time. While you were cycling your pituitary gland stopped producing LH and FSH. LH is the signal to your balls to produce T and FSH signals sperm.
If you have the money go get your LH and FSH tested and when they are back to mid range you have recovered from your cycle. Good Luck I hope some of this helped. Oh all of this is my personnal opinion I am not a doctor and I don’t try to play one on the internet.
Thanks for your reply. I took this idea from this other thread, Test Taper Protocol - #2 by Prisoner, feel free to check it out and comment what you think about it. What I got from it is that the idea of the taper is to let the body get used to decreasing amounts of exogenous test until it starts producing endogenous test by itself, without actually crashing test levels. The poster of the thread seems to be reliable and states that doses of 100mg/week of test E paired with a SERM (nolva) don’t cause complete shutdown. I believe Nolvadex also helps restore natural test production post cycle but I might be wrong.
The test taper is the absolute best way of coming off in my opinion. After being a PCT crash and burner then using the taper, it was like day and night for me.
I would use test prop during the taper as test E will prolong it too much.
If you cannot use test prop, then backfill insulin syringes to inject 0.1. Its easy.
The problem here is that you don’t get back to natural while still taking exogenous test. You’re telling your body that it doesn’t need to produce any test. Every pin—even as low as 20mg—is coming from an exogenous source. Will it work in theory? Yeah, probably. But if you’re worried about losing your libido then I assure you 20mg/w of test is going to ensure that you have almost no libido.
A simple google of what Nolvadex does sans the bro-science sites should help you with Nolva’s function.
My first doc put me on 75mg/wk of T cyp. The nurse shot me in arse once a week. Lord I just shake my head when I think back to those newbie days. Anyway here was my blood test that finely made me fire that mono T doctor and find a proper clinic that knows what they are doing. As you can see I am totally shutdown with just 75mg/wk after 6 weeks
I do not have access to test prop. But anyhow, what do you think of my planned test taper? anything you would change?
Also what do you make of all these other posters telling me its a bad idea? I honestly couldn’t care less about doing a regular Nolva PCT if it wasn’t for the libido loss, that is all I care about at this point.
Not sure if the posters here have actually tried the taper themselves. In the medical field, tapering is pretty much standard so I dont see why its any different with these meds. As for the “ester” long release arguement, the ester attached does not allow a gradual enough decline of AAS in the blood so a taper is absolutely necessary.
I can only speak from experience, if libido and a smooth transition is what you’re after the taper will be the best route. My libido used to go down the toilet following a traditional PCT for months. On the taper, i barely felt any different just a little loss of strength and size.
Your taper looks fine although for me your 0.5mg eod adex would be overkill, i am highly sensitive to AI’s however.
IMO whether you take 500mg/wk or 75mg/wk your natural T and sperm production is shutdown. Your testis no longer make anything and your pitutary gland no longer produces LH or FSH. Sooner or later you have to stop injecting then and only then will your body start to repair. The longer you were shutdown the longer it will take to come back. Note: some never come back and have to go on TRT for the rest of their lives.
I read about receptor saturation too but cant find the link. The shutdown of 500mg/wk is not the same as a lower dose IMO.
Also there is literature that Prisoner posted where the combination of clomiphene with >100mg/wk of test does not cause full suppression. Better still, a 50/50 split of Test/Mast may be even better.
There are only two blood markers that determine if you are shutdown or not. LH and FSH above I posted my mini blood test showig I was shutdown on 75mg/wk. Sorry man but just because you think it does not make is so, that is how bro-science happens. A blood test is the only way to know if one is shutdown or not. Whether you have 500mg in your system or 100mg the halflife is the same.
I said there is literature showing you can maintain LH and FSH while using less than 100mg/wk test WITH clomiphene. Did you use clomid with your 75mg of test?
I personally have not tried this. I believe Bill Roberts did an experiment to see how much Mast he could use without getting shutdown. You may find it here but I do not think even he used a SERM.
Also, what does the halflife of test have to do with shutdown? The halflife is the same yes but amount of drug in the system is very different comparing 500mg to 100mg.
Without going off on a tangent, the test taper works hands down.
