T Nation

Help with Programing


#1

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your time. Beyond 5/3/1 is fantastic, I chose to go with Full Body Power Clean Variation 2, for 4 months and I then stumbled upon your Beach Body Challenge article which appealed to me very much. Drawing inspiration from both templates I came up with the template below. Could you help me establish a rep scheme or point out where I should make changes?

Monday
Press- Work up to TM for PR set
Squat- 5's Progressions (70%, 80%, 90%, No extra reps)
Hang Cleans- 2 Sets of max reps

Wednesday
Press- 5/3/1
Sumo Deadlift- 5's Progressions (70%, 80%, 90%, No extra reps)
Kroc Rows- 2 Warm up sets, 1 all out set

Friday
Press- 50 total reps at 70%
Squat- 5/3/1
Rack Pulls (conventional stance) 3x5

Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday is all ab work, mobility, calisthenics/sprinting.

Thank you, would really appreciate any input


#2

Doing 5/3/1 squats and 5’s Progression squats will be rough. I’d pick one and do lower intensity squats on the other day. Other than that, add in some extra lat and rear delt work either at the end of the session or between press sets. When pressing with a high frequency, my shoulders get fucked unless I add in equal parts lat/rear delt work.


#3

Thanks. I wanted to keep the rep scheme kind of how it was on Full Body Power Clean Variation 2 in which Monday was 531 day and Friday was 5’s Progression day.

I will definitely look into delt/lat work. Due to a bunch of reasons I can’t bench, and can’t even do heavy DB press because it causes my elbows a lot of pain. I got the Press everyday idea from the Beach Body Challenge.


#4

If benching gives your elbows so much pain to the point you can’t even move well in that plane of motion, THAT would be the first thing I’d be addressing, instead of finding a template in which I could press a ton and potentially exacerbate the problem.


#5

[quote]TX iron wrote:
If benching gives your elbows so much pain to the point you can’t even move well in that plane of motion, THAT would be the first thing I’d be addressing, instead of finding a template in which I could press a ton and potentially exacerbate the problem.[/quote]

Good point, I’m in the process of finding out why my elbows hurt when I go heavy on the flat bench. The Sports Injury Specialist at my university told me my elbows have quite a bit of hyper-mobility and that it’s very possible I might have unintentionally hyper-extended at the top of the bench out of habit to the point it started to hurt.

I know it’s often seen as an excuse but- I have long ass wiry and lanky arms on top of having crazy mobility in the elbows. I am still looking into this and will eventually reintroduce the bench back into my programming.

Pressing however doesn’t cause me any joint pain at all


#6

Cool cool. Out of curiosity though, why not just do the FBPC2 for 2 cycles, and then the beach body challenge for 2 instead of cutting and pasting?


#7

At the time, FBPCV2 seemed like the ideal choice to move to from the novice 3x5 routine I started out with last year. I managed to always pull it off with my busy schedule, congested with school and work.

It was during FBPCV2 I had to start making adjustments, I picked Wednesday to be Deadlift day so replacing the PC it would make Wednesday:

Deadlift (I went with 70%x5, 80%x5, 90%x5)
Squat 65%x3 75%x3 85% x3
Bench Press 5/3/1

I started hitting walls due but my busy schedule and sometimes lack of sleep started to take a toll on my numbers especially on deadlift day. It also took me a while to come to terms with the fact my power clean sucked (again because of my long arms) BUT it took me very little time to learn the Hang Clean, for which some reason I can naturally get into full extension every single time.

After tweaking my back I learned how to properly sumo deadlift and that’s the stance I stuck to for Max Effort deadlifts; but when replacing the conventional out completely I left a gaping hole in my program- by taking out the conventional deadlift my back and core was simply not going to get the same work and stimulation.

So in my attempt to be a little creative and stay within the principles of what I read in B531 I attempted to make a template with some cutting and pasting that fit my busy schedule but without leaving any holes in my program for the sake of temporary jumps in numbers. This is where I stumbled upon the Beach Body Challenge but due to my time constraints I could do the accessory movements such as the rope chin ups, the neck work, etc. the very next day or when I get home late at night. I still do these accessory movements along with mobility drills and ab work on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday

I looked up how Jim integrated Hang Cleans, Rack Pulls and Kroc Rows through out B531 and thought by doing one of each every session would compensate for taking out the conventional deadlift (I’m just a 100 times more confident and comfortable pulling sumo for max effort) and I’ve been just messing with this template for 2 weeks, it’s been a lot of fun.


#8

Ok ok, I’m staying ti get your training more. And hey, if this routine is working for you, let her ride. Though, cleans, especially from the hang, with tax the hell out of the back and core.


#9

Do the Beach Body Challenge as written, but on the day you do deadlifts instead of hang cleans, pull them sumo. As far as I know, there’s no law against it. Then you’re doing a solid program (I made progress on it) that meets all of your needs.


#10

The more I look at it (Beach Body Challenge) the more I like it, even if I pulled sumo on Wednesday my back and core are well taken care of by the end of the week. I suppose you guys are right.

Jim, or anyone else, if I ran Beach Body for the recommended weeks and then returned to FBPCV2 can I completely replace the Power Clean with the Hang Clean?
Perhaps it is a mental thing but I can never get into full triple extension pulling from the floor; no problem from the hang position though


#11

Monday
Press- Work up to TM for PR set
Squat- 5’s Progressions (70%, 80%, 90%, No extra reps)

  • Hang Cleans- PROGRAM THIS!

Wednesday
Press- 5/3/1
Sumo Deadlift- 5’s Progressions (70%, 80%, 90%, No extra reps)
Kroc Rows- 2 Warm up sets, 1 all out set

Friday
Press- 50 total reps at 70%
Squat- 5/3/1

  • Rack Pulls (conventional stance) 3x5 - PROGRAM THIS or use a different exercise

Remember that the challenges I write are supposed to be challenging - a bit different. They are meant to be used year round. This is not bad overall plan for the main work. You also have 3 pretty hard days of pressing so you may want to look at something a bit different or having an “easy” day that is programmable. And make sure you program the hang cleans and rack pulls. If it’s a movement, you program it. If it’s assistance - no one gives a fuck except the turds.


#12

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
Monday
Press- Work up to TM for PR set
Squat- 5’s Progressions (70%, 80%, 90%, No extra reps)

  • Hang Cleans- PROGRAM THIS!

Wednesday
Press- 5/3/1
Sumo Deadlift- 5’s Progressions (70%, 80%, 90%, No extra reps)
Kroc Rows- 2 Warm up sets, 1 all out set

Friday
Press- 50 total reps at 70%
Squat- 5/3/1

  • Rack Pulls (conventional stance) 3x5 - PROGRAM THIS or use a different exercise

Remember that the challenges I write are supposed to be challenging - a bit different. They are meant to be used year round. This is not bad overall plan for the main work. You also have 3 pretty hard days of pressing so you may want to look at something a bit different or having an “easy” day that is programmable. And make sure you program the hang cleans and rack pulls. If it’s a movement, you program it. If it’s assistance - no one gives a fuck except the turds.[/quote]

Thanks a lot, man.

I only recently learned how to Press properly, so I’m mining in on some overdue yet relatively decent beginner gains on that lift. Before I run into a wall I’ll eventually add the dumbbell bench back to my program (when the elbow soreness subsides) and do it on Wednesday to give my shoulders a break.

I think the smartest thing for me to do in terms of programming the Hang Cleans and Rack Pulls would be:

  1. For Monday’s Hang Cleans it should follow 5/3/1

  2. For Friday’s Rack Pulls, I’m going to go with First Set Last (65%,75%,85%x5+,AMRAP x 65%) %s will be based on last TM used for conventional deadlift.

On paper this sounds ideal, my back, posterior chain, core are being challenged. Getting progressively wrecked by the AMRAP closers for Rack Pulls on Friday are perfect way to end the week. I’ll adjust what I do on my rest days according to my progress and recovery rate.

I hope that actually looks effective that I’m not just delusional or stupid.


#13

“2. For Friday’s Rack Pulls, I’m going to go with First Set Last (65%,75%,85%x5+,AMRAP x 65%) %s will be based on last TM used for conventional deadlift.”

Most people can rack pull a shit ton more than they can pull from the floor. Either use a different TM, or use your TM for deadlift and work up in 5-10% increments until you cannot pull for a set of 5.

For example:

Deadlift TM = 500

Last set on 3x3 week is 450. So you do your rack pulls at:

450x5
475x5
500x5
550x5

Or whatever you want. Keeps things consistent and offers some auto regulation.