T Nation

Help With PCT


#1

Planning on starting cycle soon.
Weeks 1-4 D-bol at 25 mgs/day
Weeks 1-10 Equipoise at 500 mgs week
I have Nolva for Pct-should I start one week after EQ ends and do I need an AI!
Thanks, while I have experimented in the past, I am fairly new to anabolics


#2

Clomid is better suited for PCT than nolv and your nolv should be kept for estrogen control during a cycle. Also, you will need to start your clomid about 2 weeks after last injection.

I have a few questions about your cycle, they are:
Why are you only running D-bol and Eq? Don't get me wrong, Eq is a wonderful substance and one I would prefer over most others--however, you need to run Eq at least 14-18 weeks for total usage of this substance. Also, why not add some type of Test to your cycle?

Just some things to think about.


#3

Back to the drawing board man, here come the flames.


#4

So, here's what information I've gathered. Nolvadex and clomid are both SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) meaning they can be estrogen agonists or estrogen antagonists depending on the tissue in which they are binding to. They both bind to the receptor sites in the breasts helping to prevent gyno, but at the pituitary gland nolvadex has a greater effect on producing LH (Luteinizing Hormone) which tells the Leydig Cells in the Testes to make anabolic hormones (i.e. testosterone). Also I've read that clomid can be slightly estrogenic at the pituitary, which is probably not ideal for PCT.

So, if I were you, I'd definitely run an AI post cycle, and if I had to choose between nolvadex or clomid, I'd choose nolvadex to run along side my AI.

I hope that was helpful...


#5

I second the Nolvadex over clomid. What I have forund from personal experience that the Nolvadex works a lot better. Also you have to use a lot more clomid to acheive the same results.


#6

I have never thought of it in that way, good info bro.
Clomid can be "slightly" estrogenic at the pituitary, just never put it together.


#7

I would love to add some test to cycle-just not able to get my hands on any.I will run the EQ longer-thanks.


#8

Yes, very helpful. From my readings, most seem to prefer nolva over clomid.
One more question- are you saying to run the AI concurrently with the nolva?


#9

I think this one is tricky... I personally don't have any experience with Eq, but it doesn't aromatize very readily, so I wouldn't think you'd need an AI for the last part of your cycle...

I would take an AI like arimidex for the first 4-5 weeks when you're taking your dbols though... Eq is still suppresive on your natural hormones so during PCT I would run an AI to help prevent any estrogen related side effects...


#10

This will be a tough cycle to recover from, as withought the test you will be shut down for a long time. EQ is simmilar in halflife to deca. Realistically you need to wait 4-6 weeks following your last injection of Eq before you can begin you pct.

Personally in this situation where you are running the dbols, and the EQ, which doesn't require any anti E, I would try and get some proviron, and run it at 25-50 mg per day for the entire cycle, and 4-6 weeks post cycle.

Clomid or Nolva would then not be required either.


#11

P22,

why do you suggest proviron? I haven't seen it greatly discussed, and I haven't been able to get a clear definition on whether it's an AI or an anti-estrogen...

if it is merely an anti-estrogen, wouldn't an AI be more effective?


#12

I personally find EQ a little less suppressive than Deca and find 3 weeks is enough however you may want to wait 4 weeks. This depends on what you are running, without test you may find even longer as Prisoner#22 suggested.

Proviron is an anti-estrogen, but unlike Nolvadex that only blocks the estrogen receptor, Proviron actually prevents estrogen production while elevating androgen levels. This is of key importance not only during the cycle but with PCT when estrogen can become the dominant hormone. It?s a good product and cheap here in Asia so worth adding.


#13

As honkie said, proviron binds more advidly to the aromatase enzyme then other steroid homones which aromatize, yet itself cannot convert to estrogen, therefore it ties up the aromatase enzyme, reducing the amount of converted estrogen. On a cycle such as this proviron will do just fine. Proviron also binds more advidly to shbg, freeing up more of the other hormones to bind at the AR, and additionally proviron is methylated DHT, which, will support your libido, while on compounds such as EQ and dbol that eventually will cause a decrease in libido.

Proviron will be particularly usefull in the taper, as the drug can actually be increased, as the EQ tapers down, prolonging the effectiveness of the EQ, due to the shbg, and will support the libido. Proviron can then be tapered off once the Eq has sufficiently cleared the body.


#14

Interesting stuff... thanks guys!


#15

Back to the drawing board!


#16

where can u get nolva pills?


#17

Walgreens


#18

ya, i get mine at the local target!! buy 1 get one 1/2 off. GOOD DEAL!!