T Nation

Help with New 5x5 Split

Hey fellow T-Men!

I’ve had really good success with the 5x5 plan that Patricia and Ko tried a little while ago. I’m on a pretty severe cutting phase, and have been able to lose an average of 2 lbs. of fat per week on this regimen combined with a modified T-Dawg. However, now I want to change up the exercises, as I feel I’m adapting to them a bit. So, here is my new split. Please let me know if you see any room for improvement. Thanks again, Joel!

Day 1

A1.) Incline Bench Press (did flat bench before)

A2.) Weighted Dips (still keeping these)

B1.) Seated Half Press (did close-grip bench before)

B2.) Back Shrugs

Day 2

A1.) Front Squats

A2.) Deadlifts (not sumo)

B1.) Seated Calf Raise

B2.) Exploding Push Press (like Meltdown)

Day 3

A1.) Chins

A2.) BO Rows

B1.) Reverse Bicep Curls (EZ Bar)

B2.) Wrist Curls

Any suggestions are much appreciated!

I think it looks great. One suggestion would be to switch the days that you do shrugs and push presses with. You’ll be fine how you have it set up, but you are doing similar motions with only one day of rest. The other option would be to shift the days so that your Day 1 and Day 2 workouts are actually Day 1 and Day 3. That way you will have 2 days rest between the overlapping exercises assuming you do these on Mon and Fri.

Switch the dips to decline close grip bench presses or reverse grip bench presses.

I don't like the idea of training chest and triceps in the same workout. I'd rather you blast them fresh on different days. I'd still go with the chest/back & arms split.

Another option would be to change things to a 5-day split in which you do 2-3 exercises per workout...but that's up to you and is dependent upon your schedule.

Let me know if you have any more questions. Train hard!


Joel, correct me if I’m wrong, but the Cambered Bar Incline Press and Weighted Dips that you talked about in your article work the chest and triceps respctively. But you just said you don’t like having chest and triceps worked in the same workout. Did you have them together because there’s nowhere else to put them in a 3-day split? Just wondering.

Jason: Thanks for the quick feedback! For some reason, my traps seem to recover rather quickly, so I think I’ll be okay with this. As far as utilizing the extra day off, I’m going to be doing this in a 6-day cycle, so I’m afraid that I can never have more than a day of rest between these motions, no matter where I position them. I’ll pay attention to recovery, and substitute another bodypart if I feel overtrained. Thanks!

Joel: I’m intrigued by the 5-day split idea. However, if for no other reason, I like the 3 day split, as it allows me to use Surge less frequently, as that can get expensive fast. And, I don’t like the idea of 5 higher-carb days, though I really need to do more research on how that might affect fat loss. Any thoughts? Other than that, I believe I will substitute the reverse grip bench presses in for the weighted dips for this split.

I did “day 2” today, and it was great, though my long limbs were more able to do the sumo deadlifts comfortably than these regular deadlifts. My shins are sore! I believe this is due to inflexibilities in my ankles. I’ve been doing the “lazy man’s guide to stretching” from TC, but maybe I’ll have to incorporate more ankle stretches. Thank you both for your help!

Matt Miller

Sorry for the confusion. For some reason I misread that Matt was doing incline benches (I thought he was doing flat, but that was last time around). I DO like the idea of training both the upper and lower fibers of the pectoralis major in one workout (inclines and dips respectively, however I would substitute dips with delcine closs grip benches); although normally (if this was not the case) I would not train chest and triceps in the same workout.

I think you’d be able to get away with using a half serving of Surge with the shorter workouts. That’s what I do and it seems to work fine; I sip it during my workout.


I wonder what implications, if any, this would have in recovery? Especially since a 1/2 serving of Surge only has 12.5g of protein. I would tend to think this would be too low to aid in recovery, but think that there could be something of value in adjusting servings of Surge based on type of training. I started a new thread about this.

Thanks again! Matt Miller

Keep in mind that the original ECA (essential carb/amino acid) stack used in the Tindale study was only 6 grams of amino acids with 35 grams of carbs.

Having said that, I use 1/2 serving only when I'm on a Steroid Dieting cycle with Mag-10 (as I am right now). I'll use a whole serving if I was on a moderate cutting cycle (1/2 before/during and half after). This still is a reduced serving of Surge for me (A normal serving would be 3 scoops since I am a bigger individual).

If i'm on a bulking Mag-10 cycle, it's not uncommon for me to conduct 250 reps in a given session. For this workout, I use 3 scoops of Surge. Why then, would I use the same amount of Surge when only conducting 50 reps (like I do when using the 5-day, 5x5 split)? Doesn't make sense.