T Nation

Help with my Cut and Bulk Cycle

Alright guys, here are my cycles I wish to carry out starting (for the cutting cycle) as soon as I get my stuff together, and (for my bulk cycle) this coming August after my competion. Weigh 230 lbs at 8% BF, been training for 10 years. I decided to put both of my cycles in here to save space on the forum page.

Before I talk about the cut cycle, I have been told that running Ketotifen or Benadryl may allow one who is cycling Clen with ECA may be able to use Clen for more than 2 weeks (3 or even 4) due to its upregulating properties that could possibly allow for the Beta 2 receptors to be desensitized later on, hence the below week listing that says “2, 3, or 4” which indicates that the Clen could last longer. Anyhow, enough babble.

Here’s the cut cycle:

Day 1: Clen 20mcg, increasing by 20mcg a day until sides elevate too much
Week 1 - X: Taurine 1g/D
Week 2,3, or 4 (depends on when effects slow): end Clen
Week 1 - 2, 3 or 4: Ketotifen 3mg/D
Next week - 2 weeks later: Ephedrine 25mg 2x/D, Caffeine 200mg 2x/D, Aspirin 100mg/D, and 100mg Benadryl before bed

Repeat until competition

If I can’t get a hold of the Keto, I will simply use Benadryl in its place. Should I only use Benadry or Keto during the ECA part of the cycle or can I use it up until my competition? Any more help with the cut cycle would be great.

And here’s the bulk cycle, what I am more concerned about. My goal is all-out mass. I don’t care about slow, lean gains because I don’t have trouble burning fat into single digits, though I doubt fat gain will be a problem anyway while on gear, especially with my diet.

CYCLE

Week 1 - Test Enth kicks in: Test Prop 100mg/ED
Week 1 - 12: Test Enth 300mg/E3D
Week 1 - 12: Tren Ace 75mg/ED
Week 1 - 12: HCG 250IU/E3D
Week 1 - 15: Adex .25mg/ED, tapered at the beginning of week 13 down to nothing by week 15
Week 1 - X: Nolva, used whenever Gyno symptoms occur

STASIS
Week 13 - 18: Test Enth 100mg

TAPER

Week 19: Reduce Test Enth by 10mg per week until dose is 0mg
Week 19: Nolvadex 25mg/ED, reduced by 5mg/ED every two weeks during the taper

Questions about my cycle:

  1. Is Test Prop a good Kickstarter for a cycle that already contains Test Enth or would Dianabol/another steroid serve this purpose better?

  2. Would Letro be a good replacement (for Adex) or addition to the cycle in any way? I have read that it can not only prevent the estrogenic sides of aromatizing steroids, but also prevent side effects from progesterone, which could be an issue with taking Trenbolone.

  3. Would 25mgx2/D of Proviron during the 2nd half of the cycle be of any use since it could help increase free Test? Maybe as an anti-estrogen? I think it could really be of use during the taper at least, but I would like the opinion of a vet.

  4. Is there anything else I can do to help retain gains for this cycle? I’m sure the vets can think of something, but what I was thinking was that with the sudden drop in Test levels during the stasis, would Cortisol levels rise, therefore making some sort of Cortisol reduction supplement helpful? Just a thought maybe.

Hope I didn’t forget anything essential or important for the cycle. Anything else you can think of that looks questionable, mention it and help if possible.

I want this cycle to be as close to perfection as possible, so any help is welcome to help tweak this sucker. Thank you to whoever contributes.

First cycle, leave the tren out.

Run adex instead of nolva throughout the cycle. Adex as the anti E, proviron is only a mild anit E at best.

Proviron could be added in midway though for its effects on SBHG at 25-50mg/day. However with 700ish mg/wk of test I personally dont feel it is necessary.

During the stasis portion of the taper the only thing you want to be using is 50mg 2x/wk of test.

I would not run an ECA stack while off clen. Ephedrine hits the same receptors as the clen does. Ephedrine can be counter productive by not allowing the receptors to fully return to normal.

I posted this up in your supplementation with clen thread. Sorry it was a late post.

yes prop is excellent kickstarter on an enth cycle.

letro will be a little harsh for everyday anti-e use adex as was already stated.

If you already have it throw the proviron in as lil said for SHGB affinity, if you dotn then dont worry about it

with tren ace you shouldnt need to worry about too many progesterone related sides IMO tren enth is more responsible for those.

[quote]Game_over wrote:
yes prop is excellent kickstarter on an enth cycle.

letro will be a little harsh for everyday anti-e use adex as was already stated.

If you already have it throw the proviron in as lil said for SHGB affinity, if you dotn then dont worry about it

with tren ace you shouldnt need to worry about too many progesterone related sides IMO tren enth is more responsible for those.[/quote]

The reason I was asking about the Test Prop is because if the Enth starts to kick in, I was thinking that the total of 1.4g/Week of one drug (granted different esters) may produce too many sides. I wouldn’t know because obviously I haven’t tried that. I will be ok if I run Test Prop for the first 4 weeks along with Test Enth?

Yeah, I already bought all of the anti-e stuff and I have a pack of Proviron that could last me through the last half of the cycle. I got it cheap.

If gyno symptoms occur during the cycle, should I simply bump up my Adex dosage or should I take Nolva instead? I read that Nolva would work faster.

As for the cut cycle, I don’t have the ECA stack yet, but I can easily obtain it. It would save me money to just run Clen with Benadryl instead of ECA with it. I will have to get more opinions on this matter to see what the most effective protocol is. It may just be that some peoples’ bodies can handle cycling Clen with ECA while others lose the effect.