T Nation

Help With Infertillity and Gear Use

I have looked alot of places and got alot of different responses. I have been very impressed with the forum here so hopefully i can get some good input.

My wife and I are trying for a child. I came off totally about 4 weeks ago. This is my cycle-

I was on test cyp 600mg for 20 weeks total until about 4 weeks ago.
Dbol for 12 weeks I continued T for another 4 weeks after that.

Now I have been told the dbol would shut down sperm production, i have been told half and half that the T would too.

I can find no medical information that says test alone will cause infertillity.

My clomid has not come in im still waiting now for about 4 weeks for my order from advancedstealth. Prolly not going to see it unfortunately…

So my PCT has sucked. I wiened myself down to 50mg of test a week in the last 4 - 5 weeks of the 20 week test. And i been using over the counter items, 6 oxo and nolvadex.

I asked my doc for HCG and he said i wouldnt need it that i would come back on my own.

Now the questions. Will doing test alone cause infertillty or decrease sperm production?
How long should i stay off to let my testes recover before i get back on test? I have lost so much of my size its sad, and i feel like crap.

Im 32 and my natural test level was 308 on a blood test from lab that normal range for my age was 300-800, so my natural test level is on the low end…

Thanks for any input…

Losing size is to be expected, but how much of it you keep will depend on your PCT, how you train post-cycle, and how much mass your body can sustain through natural production (and at 308, honestly, it’s not a lot).

Testosterone will certainly not cause infertility. Although I do think that your alleged taper is skewed. I’m assuming you didn’t exactly taper off those 600mg/week gradually, since you say you went from 600mg to 50mg in just 4-5 weeks.

Basically, your PCT should have been more rigorous and longer. But then again, I’m not much of an expert on the topic.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

Anyway, 250iu of HCG ED for around 20 days should help, though it would have been better during the cycle itself.

On a related note, I read a case study on pubmed about a guy who had been juicing continuously for 9 years who wanted to concieve with his wife. It took a combination o0f HMG and HCG but within months, his wife was pregnant.

Good luck,
Bushy[/quote]

HCG 250 SC EOD is probably enough. But with the half life of HCG, 500iu SC EOD would reduce the injections.

About that pregnancy… was the baby his? ;}

albig,

What were you doing for estrogen control?

Any T that increases your levels will shutdown the HPTA. With no LH, the testes shrink and long term shrinkage can lead to permanent changes. HCG all through a cycle at 250iu SC EOD is ideal.

The only mechanism for reduced or lost fertility from gear is from PHTA shutdown. HCG will prevent all of that.

I don’t think that tapering and dwelling at 50mg/wk is a good idea. The T levels will be small, E is probably high and SHBG can be high. Your FT make be very low and the E will block the action of whatever FT you have - you felt like crap? Guys with low T, who are on TRT, do not seem to ever be dosed at 50mg/wk, typically started at 100mg/wk. End of test taper should overlap SERM.

Then stop the T and stay on adex through the PCT and after. Adex dose can be tapered down from on-gear dose after 2 weeks into PCT, then at 1.5mg/wk through PCT and beyond, then reduce to 1mg/wk, that dose can be scaled by body weight against a 160 lb reference weight. If you get E2 serum testing (0-53) then aim for lower 20’s.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]KSman wrote:
albig,

What were you doing for estrogen control?

Any T that increases your levels will shutdown the HPTA. With no LH, the testes shrink and long term shrinkage can lead to permanent changes. HCG all through a cycle at 250iu SC EOD is ideal.

The only mechanism for reduced or lost fertility from gear is from PHTA shutdown. HCG will prevent all of that.

I don’t think that tapering and dwelling at 50mg/wk is a good idea. The T levels will be small, E is probably high and SHBG can be high. Your FT make be very low and the E will block the action of whatever FT you have - you felt like crap? Guys with low T, who are on TRT, do not seem to ever be dosed at 50mg/wk, typically started at 100mg/wk. End of test taper should overlap SERM.

Then stop the T and stay on adex through the PCT and after. Adex dose can be tapered down from on-gear dose after 2 weeks into PCT, then at 1.5mg/wk through PCT and beyond, then reduce to 1mg/wk, that dose can be scaled by body weight against a 160 lb reference weight. If you get E2 serum testing (0-53) then aim for lower 20’s.[/quote]

can someone please translate the abbreviations?
Im in a somewhat similar situation so this would really be helpfull

TRT - testosterone replacement therapy
EOD - every other day
PCT - post cycle therapy

HPTA
SERM
HCG
SHBG

I’ll ask that you look up these last four on your own – that way, the info will stick wih you longer and a solid understanding is mandatory anyway.

I feel that your main questions have been answered so…

Why did you use Dianabol for 12 weeks? That is very long for such a toxic drug, i assume you know this as you seemed to be experienced somewhat.
What dose was it at?

JJ

[quote]chillain wrote:
TRT - testosterone replacement therapy
EOD - every other day
PCT - post cycle therapy

HPTA
SERM
HCG
SHBG

I’ll ask that you look up these last four on your own – that way, the info will stick wih you longer and a solid understanding is mandatory anyway.

[/quote]

whats LH, LT, CNN, CBS, ILWU, PPN, soo on and so forth. I think we should write this shit out so there is no confusion…wait I thought I read forum rules somewhere, aren’t abbreviations against those rules? could be wrong

Careful bub, your walking a slippery slope.
In this thread you will get a new one torn open for ya.

       THE POWERS HAVE SPOKEN

I say this from experience …

[quote]edk3335 wrote:
I think we should write this shit out so there is no confusion…wait I thought I read forum rules somewhere, aren’t abbreviations against those rules? could be wrong

[/quote]

Abbreviations are against the rules?
NTTAWWT, but WTF?

Lol…

[quote]AlterEgo wrote:
edk3335 wrote:
I think we should write this shit out so there is no confusion…wait I thought I read forum rules somewhere, aren’t abbreviations against those rules? could be wrong

Abbreviations are against the rules?
NTTAWWT, but WTF?

Lol…[/quote]

like omg bff lolz

this thread lost its purpose

Shortly after my first cycle of test. me and my wife tried to have a baby…this went on for a year with no luck til i went to the doc for a sperm test and found that they were alive, just had a very low count that was the problem

so guess what he gave me? more test. he prescribed andriol and within 1 month she was pregnent. that was like 9 years ago cant remember the dosage sure it was low…
hope that helps…

[quote]gunsxl wrote:
shortly after my first cycle of test. me and my wife tried to have a baby…this went on for a year with no luck til i went to the doc for a sperm test and found that they were alive, just had a very low count that was the problem

so guess what he gave me? more test. he prescribed andriol and within 1 month she was pregnent. that was like 9 years ago cant remember the dosage sure it was low…
hope that helps…[/quote]

WHAT!? Seriously? Wow, that is strange. Were they the little reddish oval caps?

I’m on TRT and my doc has me taking 250iu HCG on day 6 and 7 of my cycle. She put aside the birth control and it took 7 months of trying, but my wife got pregnant (kid #2) without a hitch. Not sure why 7 months, we think it had to do with her body still recovering from kid #1 and the BC pills she was on.

I was only taking the doc prescribed TRT too, nothing extra (because I can’t seem to find a source for it).

[quote]beebuddy wrote:
gunsxl wrote:
shortly after my first cycle of test. me and my wife tried to have a baby…this went on for a year with no luck til i went to the doc for a sperm test and found that they were alive, just had a very low count that was the problem

so guess what he gave me? more test. he prescribed andriol and within 1 month she was pregnent. that was like 9 years ago cant remember the dosage sure it was low…
hope that helps…

WHAT!? Seriously? Wow, that is strange. Were they the little reddish oval caps?[/quote]

yes thats the one… and it worked!!