T Nation

Help with High E2

Hi all,
Thanks a lot for all these good info you’ve gathered here; I’ve learnt a lot.
I’m getting ready for a BB comp (running a rather heavy cycle) and I’m having some problem controlling my E2 and thyroid levels.
I thought I’d ask for some advice here since this section retains a bit more proper knowledge than the steroids forum.
My most recent lab results are as follows (I’m only posting the ones I find important to save time and space)

Total T: 145.5 nmol/L (4193.1 ng/dL)
Free T: >170 pmol/L (>4899.14 pg/dL)
E2: 1232 pmol/L (335.6 pg/mL)
RBC: 5.9 x10^12/L (Range 4.2-5.7)
TSH: 1.85 mU/L
f-T4: 10 pmol/L (0.75 ug/dL)
f-T3: 1.9 pmol/L (123.38 pg/dL)

I’m running 100mcg/D T3 and 100mg/D Test P

First question is why the hell is my TSH and T4 levels normal (as opposed to ZERO) and my T3 not through the roof? My body temp is slightly elevated (Avg 37.5) so I’m guessing my T3 is legit (or maybe it’s the thermogenics increasing my body temp)

Second one is about my E2 which is too damn high. I’ve tried both Adex and Letro but E2 is still high. At some points I thought I had crashed my E2 because of the AIs since I figured low and high E2 levels have somehow the same side effects. Should I simply up my AI dose? Anyone ever heard of non responders to AIs? Could my problem be something else?

One more thing: I was expecting RBC counts way higher than that? It’s only slightly elevated with that dose of Test. What gives?

If you can help me out or give me some insight as to why my levels don’t make sense (or do), I’d really appreciate it.
Thanks in advance.

Your thyroid will decrease the amount of thyroid hormones it is making in response to thyroid hormone in your system. How much T3 are you taking? Is it liquid or is it pill form? Do you know what your TSH was before taking hormones?

I am confused a little by your labs. The estradiol should respond to letrozole. My guess would be to go up as high as 2.5mg/day if you taking high amounts of T and you feel high estradiol’s effects…if you are not having estradiol symptoms then don’t do anything…

I’m taking 100mcg T3 ED. It’s a capsule from a research chem company. I was running liquid T3 before that too but heard about possible instability and switched to caps. I would say with that much T3 my own thyroid should be shut down and TSH and T4 should be close to zero with high amounts of T3 in my blood.
I will give Letro a shot at 2.5mg/D since I’m close to my show and have to fully drop my E2 anyways. I hope it works or I should look for pharm grade sources.

[quote]AnabolicMelvin wrote:
I’m taking 100mcg T3 ED. It’s a capsule from a research chem company. I was running liquid T3 before that too but heard about possible instability and switched to caps. I would say with that much T3 my own thyroid should be shut down and TSH and T4 should be close to zero with high amounts of T3 in my blood.
I will give Letro a shot at 2.5mg/D since I’m close to my show and have to fully drop my E2 anyways. I hope it works or I should look for pharm grade sources.[/quote]

Yeah my guess is the t3 isn’t that great. I take tiromel from turkey and it seems to work well.

Possible the increased T load is causing the thyroid to go into overdrive trying to keep up, but I have no idea.

Up your AI, 1mg/wk per 100mg of T is the “norm” for those on TRT. I would expect a cycle amount to require more. How much are you taking?

Competitive AI drugs need to be dosed in proportion to fT or bio-T levels. There is your problem. Try 1mg anastrozole per day, do not know how to recommend letro.

Labs for ALT/AST?
Hematocrit?

Are you iodine deficient? See thyroid basics sticky.

I do not know what to do with your fT3, fT3 in pmols

No other gear or SERMs?

AST/ALT and CK are elevated but aren’t liver specific and I haven’t been taking any time off from the gym.
AST is 265 U/L (range: <37)
ALT is 225 U/L (range: <46)
CK is 7790 U/L (range is irrelevant IMO but: <225)
GGT is liver specific which is 12 U/L (range: <60)
Bilirubin is NEG in urinalysis
Kidney is doing great
Hematocrit is 0.45 L/L (range: 0.38-0.49)
I already converted ft3 and ft4 to ug/dL and pg/dL in the brackets in the OP.

Cycle is Test P, Tren A, Mast P, Stanazolol (inj), Clen, T3
No heavy orals, no SERMS. Liver support supps are run throughout full year.

I don’t think I’m iodine deficient. My temps are stable and before starting T3 or any other Thermogenics I didn’t have any hypo symptoms. (It does run in my family though)

Thanks for the info on AIs I guess at this dose of test I should be running much higher doses of AIs. Good to know for off season as well.

why is alt and ast not liver specific??? This is crazy to me lol… GOT T??? lol

FYI:


I know this is only one study but…
My AST and ALT are always through the roof and EVERY time after a deload week they fall back close to “in range” (top of range)

In fact this past year I took a full 2 weeks off training for vacation and my AST and ALT were mid range afterwards even though I was drinking and partying for those 2 weeks (something I never do while training) so personally I strongly believe those markers aren’t good indicators of liver health as long at Bilirubin, ?GT and ALP are in range. (Or maybe I’m just fooling myself)