T Nation

Help with First Cycle


#1

on my first cycle. started taking 30mg/d DBOL with 10mg nolva/d two weeks ago. i was unsure of injectibles at first, but want to add something to the cycle to keep the gains ive seen from DBOL (and pack on some more strength/mnuscle). for PCT i currently have 20 50mg clomid and about 30 10mg nolva. QUESTIONS:

1.) what injectible should i add (im looking for size and strength) and in what dose?
2.) is it too late to start the injectible given that im already 2 weeks into dbol?
3.) will what i currently have for PCT be sufficient to cover the additional juice?


#2

Why do people always ask for help after they start their cycle? Your setup is way off and all wrong. You should have planned your cycle much better and in advance. Stop the dbol now, and get a plan together.


#3

If you want to do this right stop the dbol now and start planning a proper cycle. 2 weeks at 30mg/d should not have shut you down completely but there is a chance it has. You will likely recover without PCT but you may not want to take that chance. I would run the nolva at 40mg/d for a week then 20mg/d for 2 more weeks.

You also did not say how long you will be running the dbol for and you didn’t say how quickly you can accquire injectables so we can’t answer that question.

You also didn’t provide any of the relevant information that a first time poster is expected to provide.

Read the stickies and previous posts until you have a good idea of what you should be doing.


#4

can get the injectables in two to three days… my friend recommends sus250 @ 500mg per week. the dbol cycle was going to be for 4 weeks, used as a kick start. im 23 yrs, 6’7.5", 220lbs.

i take in abobut 3500 cal per day on a very healthy diet… just want to get this info asap so i can start injectables now (so i dont have to order any more ptc – if need be, i will do so). some atrophy has occurred, so im pretty sure i have shut down (or will be doing so quite soon).


#5

You need to eat a lot more.

6 7 220 is TINY.

Add 1000 calories to your diet over the next month or two and watch the pounds start adding up.

Your cycle plan is outline in the Beginner cycle sticky, read it for more info.


#6

[quote]bimmerfan5 wrote:
on my first cycle. started taking 30mg/d DBOL with 10mg nolva/d two weeks ago. i was unsure of injectibles at first, but want to add something to the cycle to keep the gains ive seen from DBOL (and pack on some more strength/mnuscle). for PCT i currently have 20 50mg clomid and about 30 10mg nolva. QUESTIONS:

1.) what injectible should i add (im looking for size and strength) and in what dose?
2.) is it too late to start the injectible given that im already 2 weeks into dbol?
3.) will what i currently have for PCT be sufficient to cover the additional juice?[/quote]

dude…

week 1-4:Dbol 30mg/day
week 1-12:test E 500mg/week split in to two shots
week 1-12:arimidex 0.5mg/Day

PCT
week 13-14 Nolva 40mg/Day
week 14-15 Nolva 20mg/Day

optional:
if gyno flares up during weeks 1-12 take nolva 20mg/Day.

also like bonez said you need to eat lots more!

Kerley


#7

[quote]Kerley wrote:
bimmerfan5 wrote:
on my first cycle. started taking 30mg/d DBOL with 10mg nolva/d two weeks ago. i was unsure of injectibles at first, but want to add something to the cycle to keep the gains ive seen from DBOL (and pack on some more strength/mnuscle). for PCT i currently have 20 50mg clomid and about 30 10mg nolva. QUESTIONS:

1.) what injectible should i add (im looking for size and strength) and in what dose?
2.) is it too late to start the injectible given that im already 2 weeks into dbol?
3.) will what i currently have for PCT be sufficient to cover the additional juice?

dude…

week 1-4:Dbol 30mg/day
week 1-12:test E 500mg/week split in to two shots
week 1-12:arimidex 0.5mg/Day

PCT
week 13-14 Nolva 40mg/Day
week 14-15 Nolva 20mg/Day

optional:
if gyno flares up during weeks 1-12 take nolva 20mg/Day.

also like bonez said you need to eat lots more!

Kerley
[/quote]

Kerley, he’d want to wait a couple of weeks after his last test E injection before starting PCT. That’s a lot of adex, too. Most of us can get by at lower doses, though I guess some people might be much more susceptible to aromatase activity than others.


#8

[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
Kerley wrote:
bimmerfan5 wrote:
on my first cycle. started taking 30mg/d DBOL with 10mg nolva/d two weeks ago. i was unsure of injectibles at first, but want to add something to the cycle to keep the gains ive seen from DBOL (and pack on some more strength/mnuscle). for PCT i currently have 20 50mg clomid and about 30 10mg nolva. QUESTIONS:

1.) what injectible should i add (im looking for size and strength) and in what dose?
2.) is it too late to start the injectible given that im already 2 weeks into dbol?
3.) will what i currently have for PCT be sufficient to cover the additional juice?

dude…

week 1-4:Dbol 30mg/day
week 1-12:test E 500mg/week split in to two shots
week 1-12:arimidex 0.5mg/Day

PCT
week 13-14 Nolva 40mg/Day
week 14-15 Nolva 20mg/Day

optional:
if gyno flares up during weeks 1-12 take nolva 20mg/Day.

also like bonez said you need to eat lots more!

Kerley

Kerley, he’d want to wait a couple of weeks after his last test E injection before starting PCT. That’s a lot of adex, too. Most of us can get by at lower doses, though I guess some people might be much more susceptible to aromatase activity than others.
[/quote]

Aww crap i left out a stasis period my bad am pretty tired.
ill edit it now
thanks for pointing that out.


#9

Adex 0.5mg/d may be good during the period using BOTH test e & dbol. Once dbol is stopped, you could probably reduce to 0.25mg/d.


#10

ok so i re-did it because i left out the taper and the Stasis last time LOL
also the reason the adex was so high is because that is the dose i have to take i changed iton the cycle plan for this dude because he might not be as susceptible to estrogen.

Cycle Plan
Week 1-4 Dbol 30mg/Day
Week 1-10 Test E 250mg 2xweek
Week 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)

Optional Ancilliaries
Week 1-10 Nolva 20mg/d if gyno symptoms start to show

Test Stasis and Taper
Week 10-14 Test Enth 40mg E3D (stasis portion to mimic normal hormone levels)
Week 15-16 Test Enth 30mg E3D
Week 17-18 Test Enth 20mg E3D
Week 19-20 Test Enth 10mg E3D

The taper gradually takes your body below normal androgen levels slowly enough that it is able to kick in and compensate.

after that personaly i do a standard SERM PCT something like:

SERM PCT
Week 21 Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg 2x/d
Week 22-24 Nolva 20mg/d or Clomid 25mg/d

kerley


#11

So with a 10 week cycle which gives about 7-8 weeks of gains suppression is recommended for a minimum of 14 weeks?

I dont like this cycle - it may as well be cut and pasted from the sticky we have, not to mention not even an option for the OP seeing as he started the dbol 2 weeks before anything else!

The kid (the OP) should have stopped and not been encouraged IMO - and if info was to be given to use some sort of damage control if he decides to go ahead with it anyway, then i would have thought a short cycle where he can come off easily and recover and then have time to do it properly next time would be more suitable than a 20 week cycle taper included… ESPECIALLY seeing as a SERM PCT is being advised to be ran AFTER 10 WEEKS of further stasis tapering/inhibition - when the SERM would have done anyway!

2 thumbs down from me…

JMO


#12

[quote] Brook wrote:
So with a 10 week cycle which gives about 7-8 weeks of gains suppression is recommended for a minimum of 14 weeks?

I dont like this cycle - it may as well be cut and pasted from the sticky we have, not to mention not even an option for the OP seeing as he started the dbol 2 weeks before anything else!

The kid (the OP) should have stopped and not been encouraged IMO - and if info was to be given to use some sort of damage control if he decides to go ahead with it anyway, then i would have thought a short cycle where he can come off easily and recover and then have time to do it properly next time would be more suitable than a 20 week cycle taper included… ESPECIALLY seeing as a SERM PCT is being advised to be ran AFTER 10 WEEKS of further stasis tapering/inhibition - when the SERM would have done anyway!

2 thumbs down from me…

JMO[/quote]

thats the cycle i do, works for me.


#13

[quote]Kerley wrote:
Brook wrote:
So with a 10 week cycle which gives about 7-8 weeks of gains suppression is recommended for a minimum of 14 weeks?

I dont like this cycle - it may as well be cut and pasted from the sticky we have, not to mention not even an option for the OP seeing as he started the dbol 2 weeks before anything else!

The kid (the OP) should have stopped and not been encouraged IMO - and if info was to be given to use some sort of damage control if he decides to go ahead with it anyway, then i would have thought a short cycle where he can come off easily and recover and then have time to do it properly next time would be more suitable than a 20 week cycle taper included… ESPECIALLY seeing as a SERM PCT is being advised to be ran AFTER 10 WEEKS of further stasis tapering/inhibition - when the SERM would have done anyway!

2 thumbs down from me…

JMO

thats the cycle i do, works for me.
[/quote]

A prevalent theme on this board is following a procedure for optimal gains and recovery.

Most people here know that there are dozens of ways to skin a cat. In a specific situation there is usually one or two ways to skin the cat as quick and painless as possible.

Get it?

There is no reason why a standard SERM PCT started 2-3 weeks after the last Test E injection would not work great for a medium length cycle.

The stasis taper has it’s place and some may feel it is superior in all cases but when giving advice to a first timer it is best to keep things as simple as possible and let the person decide if they want to make changes in the future.

EDIT
BTW When you start the 100mg/wk stasis portion of PCT it would be wise to wait until blood levels of T are near 100mg. That means wait a few weeks inbetween your last cycle shot and the beginning of the stasis. Going right into the stasis will delay the amount of time before your body reaches the 100mg/wk level causing extended supression.


#14

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Kerley wrote:
Brook wrote:
So with a 10 week cycle which gives about 7-8 weeks of gains suppression is recommended for a minimum of 14 weeks?

I dont like this cycle - it may as well be cut and pasted from the sticky we have, not to mention not even an option for the OP seeing as he started the dbol 2 weeks before anything else!

The kid (the OP) should have stopped and not been encouraged IMO - and if info was to be given to use some sort of damage control if he decides to go ahead with it anyway, then i would have thought a short cycle where he can come off easily and recover and then have time to do it properly next time would be more suitable than a 20 week cycle taper included… ESPECIALLY seeing as a SERM PCT is being advised to be ran AFTER 10 WEEKS of further stasis tapering/inhibition - when the SERM would have done anyway!

2 thumbs down from me…

JMO

thats the cycle i do, works for me.

A prevalent theme on this board is following a procedure for optimal gains and recovery.

Most people here know that there are dozens of ways to skin a cat. In a specific situation there is usually one or two ways to skin the cat as quick and painless as possible.

Get it?

There is no reason why a standard SERM PCT started 2-3 weeks after the last Test E injection would not work great for a medium length cycle.

The stasis taper has it’s place and some may feel it is superior in all cases but when giving advice to a first timer it is best to keep things as simple as possible and let the person decide if they want to make changes in the future.

EDIT
BTW When you start the 100mg/wk stasis portion of PCT it would be wise to wait until blood levels of T are near 100mg. That means wait a few weeks inbetween your last cycle shot and the beginning of the stasis. Going right into the stasis will delay the amount of time before your body reaches the 100mg/wk level causing extended supression. [/quote]

Thankyou Bonez, thats exactly the point.

Kerley - If you inject 1000mg once every 8 days over 20 weeks it would work - does that make it something you would blindly advise someone else to do? Nope.

On the back of your suggested cycle, the “it works for me” claim and last but not least, admitting that you suggested it simply because it is the exact same cycle you do - i dont think you’re really the best person to be suggesting cycles for people, do you?

And before you reply with “What makes YOU so qualified” i will remind you, nothing does. One doesn’t have to be ‘qualified’ to advise on AAS use online (which is a problem in many cases). But on this site - as a sort of self regulating mechanism, we all ensure the advice given is safe AND effective - not just what works for you.
When i give advice here it is based on my experience of drugs i have used, a little knowledge of the way AAS work with and against the male endocrine system and of course, relavant applied common sense. Not just blindly handing out ‘what works for me’ ESPECIALLY when it is unrelated to the question in the thread.

I would also urge you to revise your own cycle plan if this is all it entails, you could do a lot better - especially in regards of recovery. Maybe you could start a thread and ask for someone to review what you currently do…

JJ


#15

no you guys do no more than me, ill keep my mouth shut from now on.


#16

[quote]Kerley wrote:
no you guys do no more than me, ill keep my mouth shut from now on.[/quote]

You don’t have to go that extreme. But letting someone know that the information you are giving is based on your own experience, and nothing more, would be appropriate.

If people don’t try different things and report them protcol would never change and possibly improve.


#17

I agree - it isnt about knowing more… no-one is born with knowledge. Shit, being on this site either taught me what i know or motivated me to learn it from other sources.

As Bonez suggested, if you prefaced the post by saying that ‘recently you have been running x, y and z cycle and it worked very well…’ then that is totally fine and likely even helpful to many lurkers or the OP (at some point).

This way you let them know it may or may not be the best plan for them, but that it is just an example of something you know that has worked for you for a period.

I dont mean to offend.


#18

[quote] Brook wrote:

As Bonez suggested, if you prefaced the post by saying that ‘recently you have been running x, y and z cycle and it worked very well…’ then that is totally fine and likely even helpful to many lurkers or the OP (at some point).

This way you let them know it may or may not be the best plan for them, but that it is just an example of something you know that has worked for you for a period.

I dont mean to offend.[/quote]

yeah your right next time i’ll be sure to say that it was a cycle i did and worked well for me ect.

no i dont take any offence to what you or bonez said, a bit of constructive criticism does no harm :slight_smile: