T Nation

Help with First Cycle, Test Prop + Tbol


#1

ey guys,

Cycle History:

I have done a 2 week Tbol only cycle before (doesn’t really count as a cycle i guess) gained 2 kg, loved the pumps and the additional strength whilst on it. This was about 2 years ago.

Stats:
Male
26
1.71m
4 years lifting
70kg
12-15% BF visible veins and Abs, bit of love around the back.

Diet:
Following IF at the moment on a maintenance of 2200 calories. I eat a smallish lunch then smash a full meal with a carb/protein/creatine shake after gym. I know my diet can be improved upon and while on cycle i will need to add in either 1 large meal or another 2 small meals. I will also be adding caseine.

Goal: Gain as much LEAN muscle mass as possible in 8 weeks. This is a pure vanity cycle :blush: I have a vacation coming up, lots of beach visits.

Cycle:

  • week 1-8 Test P 150 EOD
  • week 3-8 40mg Tbol ( rationale here is i want to feel what test is like by itself)

Supporting drugs:

  • week 1-8 Adex .25 EOD
  • week 2-8 HCG 2x per week at 250iu ( last shot 3 days after last test prop shot)
  • Finasteride 5mg ED

My PCT will be as follows

  • Starts 4 days after last Test P shot
  • Clomid 100/50/25/25
  • Nolva 40/40/20/20

Questions:

Best time to start and finish HCG?
I have read some guides saying you should start ADEX 1 week before cycles with fast ethers, as it takes time to “build up”

Which option is best:

  1. Run tbol and test concurrently for the first 5 weeks.
  2. Start tbol 2 weeks before before starting test. Finish tbol after 5 weeks as usual.
  3. My options listed above in my proposed cycle.

Thank you!


#2

Finasteride will give you a very different meaning of the term “ED”.

I’d say run the tbol as you have laid out rather than the other two options. No reason to start it before your test, especially with prop. Running it concurrently is fine for a second cycle, once you know how your body reacts to exogenous test. Your instinct is right.

PCT is probably overkill if we’re being honest. Clomid is not known as a gentle compound for some users, so starting off at 100mg may be a bit much.

Most important thing is going to be your macros and your adherence to your diet. I don’t do metric (‘Merica! Fuck yeah!) but you’re like 5’6” and 155lbs, ish? You probably have another 15-20lbs to gain natty. Now you’re doing this and you have your reasons, and I don’t necessarily disagree with them. But I would be remiss if I didn’t tell you to lift more, eat better, and get where you want to be without drugs. If you change nothing else you should st least make sure your diet is absolutely perfect before you take your first pin. Make it worth the risk. You know what I mean? Best of luck, be safe.


#3

Haha! i have been on it for 2 years now.

Thanks for the tips!

I have gotten some other opinions that i should forego the AI, as i have not used test before, what do you think? My gut tells me i should use it as better to prevent than to cure.

Also, do you have an opinion on when i should run the HCG and how much?

Cool, can definitely bring the clomid down to 50.

Yep, you totally right but that will take me at least another year. I have been a lean 76kg (167lbs) before, just after my 2 week tbol cycle. So i guess heaviest i have been naturally is just under 165lbs. But it takes a lot more effort. Plus, i like to have abs all year round, so i am definitely on the conservative side when it comes to calorie intake.


#4

I see guys running crazy doses of HCG and I wonder where the idea came from. I’m on TRT and my endo has me taking 250mg twice a week. I don’t see any good reason to run it any higher than that while on cycle, absent some results from blood work that indicate more is needed.

As far as AI is concerned, the risk of high e2 without one is very individualized. But I would rather run it and adjust my dosage down if needed, rather than not run it, start to get gyno, then scramble to run it high enough to mitigate the problems. That’s just me. You’re going to be on 450mg test a week (not exactly, because of EOD dosing, but that’s a round number that makes it easier in my head), so you could likely get away with .5mg anastrozole twice a week. Or maybe you need double that. Or half that. You really won’t know until you’re in it. But starting off lower is better than not starting at all. Does that make sense?


#5

Cool, thanks for the tips man. Helpful.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old were you when you started TRT?


#6

I was 34. Probably could have started earlier, but didn’t know what I was missing by being low for so long. Best decision I’ve ever made.


#7

Awesome, happy for you. Had you done AAS before you started TRT? How did you discover you had low t levels?


#8

No, I hadn’t knowingly taken AAS at any point. About a month ago I wrote a post about how, in the early 2000’s, I had been around for the andro trend and how a lot of the stuff that was sold was straight up gear and not at all safe for teenagers.

I figured the low t was a possibility after about three months of being back to lifting (long story). When combined with a lot of other symptoms the lack of ability to recover from workouts told me to get my levels checked.