T Nation

Help with Cycle Plan

Hello, I am looking for a little help with my next cycle. I am 5’3 155, 16% bf, and 26 y/o. I am looking to lean out and get vascular, I would like to see all of my abs. I have been lifting for 5 or 6 years, and my diet is tight.

My first cycle was deca/cypionate, which gave me good gains.

My second cycle was just tren, which I really should have researched more before taking by itself, because 4 or 5 months later my libido still isnt 100, and my knees still get very sore from time to time. My muscles looked great though while on it.

Right now I am lifting 2x per week or so, mainly boxing and doing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu every night though. Although I had been lifting 5x per week up until a couple of weeks ago.

I was thinking of doing propinate and winstrol, but I have heard winstrol is tough on the joints. Should I add some deca or just stay away from winstrol and do propenate by itself?

Is there something else I should do entirely. Should I add cytomel? I have tried Clen, but it makes me EXTREMELY hungry, and makes me cramp when training Boxing and BJJ.

Thanks for reading my long post, and thanks in advance for any advise.

You do not need steroids. You need to clean up your diet. Lower the carbs and raise the protein. BJJ is great for cardio, fat loss should be very good. If you are 155 @ 16bf after a cycle, I hate to think what you were before you started. And yes I saw that you are 5’3 and took that into consideration.

Ill echo the above statement. With doing that much cardio theres no reason you cant lean out with the proper diet.

Post your diet.

Wanting to see your abs can be done without the legal risks of AAS. A tren standalone was a very bad choice, IMO.

Yes, tren alone was a bad decision, which I have learned from, which is why I would like advise on my next cycle before taking it. I loved my results from tren as far as strength and looks gains, the results were quite dramatic, but, the side affects were not so good…

My diet is basically as follows…

Meal 1 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
Meal 2 handful of assorted nuts
Meal 3 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
Meal 4 handful of assorted nuts
Meal 5 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
After BJJ or Boxing or lifting, G2 gatorade
Meal 6 1 piece of salmon + broccolli/spinach

I understand I can get lean without AS, but from the two cycles that I have done, I felt much stronger, and of course, I felt my muscles were much larger while on AS, with no change to diet or routine

The increased size of your muscles was more than likely just increased water and blood volume inside the muscles. I understand wanting to be stronger and leaner, but both of these goals can be accomplished without gear for you.

I firmly believe that with the proper diet, training regiment, and rest, almost anyone can naturally achieve 180-200 lbs at under 10% bodyfat.

I would recommend a couple whey shakes during the day instesd of the mixed nuts.

[quote]diegosancali wrote:
Yes, tren alone was a bad decision, which I have learned from, which is why I would like advise on my next cycle before taking it. I loved my results from tren as far as strength and looks gains, the results were quite dramatic, but, the side affects were not so good…

My diet is basically as follows…

Meal 1 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
Meal 2 handful of assorted nuts
Meal 3 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
Meal 4 handful of assorted nuts
Meal 5 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
After BJJ or Boxing or lifting, G2 gatorade
Meal 6 1 piece of salmon + broccolli/spinach

I understand I can get lean without AS, but from the two cycles that I have done, I felt much stronger, and of course, I felt my muscles were much larger while on AS, with no change to diet or routine [/quote]

Have you tried a low carb approach like the anabolic diet? It is often easier to lose weight, yet keep fully energised, with a low carb approach. Your carb sources are good (yams & green veggies), but your body may be having difficulty choosing between carbs and healthy fats for its energy source since the two are pretty evenly balanced.

If you were to reduce the non-green veggie carbs to around 30g per day, then your body would rely more on fat for energy and burn your stores more efficiently. If you are not already using EFA’s as a good fat source, then you should consider adding a couple of grams per day rich in EPA & DHA. EVOO (extra virgin olive oil - first cold pressed if possible), and organic coconut oil are also good additions. Olive oil should not be heated too much (strips oil of its beneficial properties - drizzle on salad for example), while coconut oil is OK at high heat.

Higer healthy fat (say 50% of caloric intake from Protein | 45% of caloric intake from Healthy fats | 5% of caloric intake from Carbs for example) intake tends to boost testosterone serum level. Remember each gram of fat equates to 9 calories, while protein and carbs have 4 calories per gram.

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
diegosancali wrote:
Yes, tren alone was a bad decision, which I have learned from, which is why I would like advise on my next cycle before taking it. I loved my results from tren as far as strength and looks gains, the results were quite dramatic, but, the side affects were not so good…

My diet is basically as follows…

Meal 1 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
Meal 2 handful of assorted nuts
Meal 3 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
Meal 4 handful of assorted nuts
Meal 5 1 small yam + 1 chicken breast
After BJJ or Boxing or lifting, G2 gatorade
Meal 6 1 piece of salmon + broccolli/spinach

I understand I can get lean without AS, but from the two cycles that I have done, I felt much stronger, and of course, I felt my muscles were much larger while on AS, with no change to diet or routine

Have you tried a low carb approach like the anabolic diet? It is often easier to lose weight, yet keep fully energised, with a low carb approach. Your carb sources are good (yams & green veggies), but your body may be having difficulty choosing between carbs and healthy fats for its energy source since the two are pretty evenly balanced.

If you were to reduce the non-green veggie carbs to around 30g per day, then your body would rely more on fat for energy and burn your stores more efficiently. If you are not already using EFA’s as a good fat source, then you should consider adding a couple of grams per day rich in EPA & DHA. EVOO (extra virgin olive oil - first cold pressed if possible), and organic coconut oil are also good additions. Olive oil should not be heated too much (strips oil of its beneficial properties - drizzle on salad for example), while coconut oil is OK at high heat.

Higer healthy fat (say 50% of caloric intake from Protein | 45% of caloric intake from Healthy fats | 5% of caloric intake from Carbs for example) intake tends to boost testosterone serum level. Remember each gram of fat equates to 9 calories, while protein and carbs have 4 calories per gram.
[/quote]

Ok thanks. So would my meal plan have to look something more like chicken and nuts 3 times a day with whey shakes in between them and no gatorade?

Would this provide enough energy for intense sparring sessions in the gym, and would I get cramps from it, because I have lost a lot of weight before eating nothing but tuna for each meal, but, for the first couple of months I had horrible muscle cramps when sparring or drilling and they subsided only after adding a gatorade after training. My Instructor suggested the other day that I have a recovery drink after training rather than Gatorade G2, because I have been having lots of cramps lately after cutting my calories down.

Thanks again!

I have found that spinach, green beans, onion, and red bell pepper really help with cramps. They dont alleviate them fully, but they do help.

The chicken breast and salmon in your diet are already good sources of protein and a little decent fat (especially the salmon).

Typical say could be:

Breakfast: 4 scrambled eggs with 1 tbsp of natural almond butter added after cooking as a sort of dip for added flavour and good fat source.

Snack: Handful of nuts (amnonds, walnuts) and a 0 carb 1 scoop protein shake

Lunch: Chicken breast and good serving of broccoli or spinach or cauliflour or kale or brussels sprouts.

Snack: handful of nuts and 1 scoop 0 carb protein shake

Supper: Salmon and one of the veggies mentioned above.

Bedtime snack: cottage cheese with a tbsp of almond butter

Edit: The hardest part is the first 2 weeks during which your body becomes fat adapted. After that you should get good energy from the fay consumed. By the way, you should also use a few grams of high EPA/DHA omega-3 caps per day (Like Biotest Flameout), Extra virgin olive oil on salads and such (think feta cheese and some plump black olives), avacado, coconut oil to cook in, etc. Those are all health fats. A certain amount of saturated fat from beef, etc. is OK too.

Also, Have yourself 1 cheat meal per week. Don’t exagerate too much but feel free to have a pizza or sweet potato, or oatmeal, or pasta, even a dessert with that and then get back to your low carb meals.