T Nation

Help With Back Pumps?


#1

What the H*** is back pumps, I think I am having them now. What can you do for them? I have tried increasing my potassium and taurine. Nothing has helped yet. I am in so much pain, I cannot run, jog, and hardly work out with any intensity at all. Somebody help me get thru this......Please....


#2

Dumb question, but are you taking 'anything'? I know a few guys who were taking Superdrol and they experienced horrible back pumps.

-S


#3

methyl masterdrol, fish oil, flax oil, cycle support, extra milk thistle, alpha lipoic acid, multi vitamin, glutamine pre and post workout, creatinine/tarurine pre workout, 200 grams of protein I am only on my second week, up to 20 mg or 2 per day like 10 am and 10 pm. This entire week has been hell.

I have gained strength in my bench up 30 to 40 pounds with 275 for 3 and 310 for 1. weight is up from 195 to 207. It seemed like the entire day yesterday every 10 minutes I had to sit down and try to stretch my lower back. And that was from doing nothing. It sorta feels like the flu without the head problems.

Decrease the methyl, stop it all together, or keep it up and supplement it with what??
Thanks a bunch


#4

some times I heard that taking any creatine or NO product while on any PH/methyl product will increase the intensity of the back pumps, so if your taking either of them Id stop and save it for your PCT, plus they will help keep your gains a lot more.

Id also say to greatly increase your water intake, like close to 2 gallons a day and increase your taurine a little more. Also, for another little tidbit of info, most methyl products like Superdrol see most of there gains in 3 weeks, and after that its almost like diminishing returns.

So, if I were you I wouldn't go beyond 30mg a day and keep those 30mg for your last week on the cycle especially if you're under 200 pounds. Thats just my 2 cents tho, I'm not an expert or anything just willing to share what Ive learned while researching PH's.


#5

Thanks, the plan was not to exceed 3 weeks based on what I have researched. I have been told about the "back pumps" but never really understood them until this week. Today was my back/bicep split. I did a weak back this morning, really pathetic.. i got a decent pump but not what I would expect. I would do a set and have to sit down really sucked.

Tonight I blasted my biceps and I can hardly type. I upped my taurine, and strapped a belt on as tight as I could stand. I got through a great workout but I know I will pay tonight.

Anyways, thanks for the information, I will drop the creatine and glutamine for now, suck down even more water, bump up the taurine and try to up the MM to 30 mg for my last week (week 3) then PCT for 3 weeks.

How long after my cycle will I stop feeling lethargic and the back stop hurting?


#6

For what it's worth:

Strange, but when I was taking MAG-10, if I split the dose into two daily, everything was fine. If I took the whole dose first thing in the morning and went to the gym, I got horrible cramps in my biceps. Debilitating. Didn't matter what I was doing. Bench, Squat, anything.

I suggest you either take less of what you're taking, split it up into several doses per day or stop taking it. At least you learned something.


#7

Your "ON" thats what is causing it want it to stop drop the mythl mast whatever it is

Phill


#8

It shouldn't be too long after. Probably within the first week, week and a half, but I doubt it would go longer than that. Also do what Kroby said with splitting the dosage up. Im sure it's in 10mg doses so if ur still at 20mg a day, i would say hit 10mg in the morning and 10mg 8hours after, and when you hit 30mg a day, go 10mg in the morning 10mg 8hours after and then 10mg right before bed. That should alleviate some of the pumps/pain.

Just outta curiosity, what's your PCT look like?


#9

diindolylmethane
rebound xt
sci fit es3 stack
t bomb
cycle support
long jack
yohimbe
tribulus
dhea
t max
hard on the estrogen blockers and test boosters to start then back off of the estrogen blockers over 3 to 4 weeks.

will also get back on creatine and glutamine to help maintain the additional growth.
I have put on at least 14 lbs without any additional midsection growth. if i can cut well i will be very happy at the end of this cycle.


#10

You're going to want a SERM with the Superdrol compound. Don't rely on OTC PCT, I've heard some horror stories about that.


#11

seems pretty solid. Just make sure you slowly taper off on your E-blockers and test boosters. The last thing you want is an estrogen rebound, that would really suck. Anything for cortisol levels though after the cycle?

But other than that you should be fine. The creatine will really help you keep your gains so good choice on choosing to go with it.


#12

i have some cortileve but wasn't thinking about it at this time. thanks for suggesting. i really appreciate your input. what would you suggest for dosing the estro blockers and how to taper. i have an idea on what i want to do but any additional info is always helpful.
thanks again


#13

Well, Ive never personally used anything you have in your arsenal but I can show you how I would use the e-blockers and t boosters that are somewhat more common.

PCT
mg/mg/mg/mg = week1 dosage/week2 dosage/week3 dosage/week 4 dosage

1.)Nolvadex: SERM, aromatase inhibitor (E-Blocker)
40mg/30mg/20mg/10mg ED, Higher doses split up throughout day
or
30mg/20mg/20mg/10mg ED, Higher doses split up throughout day
6-OXO: T-Booster
6caps/6caps/6caps/3caps or 6caps/6caps/3caps/3caps ED, at night before bed
Retain 2: Cortisol Control
3caps/3/2/1 ED, Spread evenly throughout day
Tribulus:Libido Booster, T-Booster (SERM may lower libido)
3g/3g/2g/1g 5 days on, 2 days off. Essentially M-F, weekends off
Help keep your libido up and naturally boost your T levels
DHEA:
200mg/150mg/100mg/50mg ED

2.)Can replace Nolvadex with Clomid at:
200mg Day 1, 100mg Days 2-12, 50mg Days 13-22 (Higher doses spread evenly throughout day)
Can Replace 6-OXO with Novedex XT at:
4caps/4caps/3caps/2caps ED at night before bed

On Cycle

Nolvadex: Aromatase inhibitor (E-Blocker)
10mg/10mg/10mg/10mg ED
or
Formadrol Extreme( E-Blocker, T booster):
2caps/3/3/4 or 2caps/3/3/3 ED spread evenly throughout day, 4caps would be for around 40mg of PH
or
Clomid:
50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg ED

You essentially want to slowly taper off everything. I don't know the dosages on the stuff you have but you can get the idea from the PCT's above. If you really want to you can post your PCT plan and I'll take a gander at it, but you should be able to get the jist of what needs to be done from what I listed above.

Remember though, those regimens are essentially what I've found through months of reading up on the topic and what most people have followed and said they received the best results from.

Hint: Nolvadex= Tamoxifen Citrate(15.2mg of Tamoxifen Citrate is equal to 10mg of Nolvadex)
Clomid= Clomiphene Citrate


#14

And I forgot to also tell you that don't worry about pains with running. Almost all methylated products will make it almost IMPOSSIBLE to run due to back pumps and EXTREME shin splints. Sorry I didn't respond to that earlier.


#15

Thank you for all the information, I will be on for 4 more days then I will start pct. I really appreciate the support.

diindolylmethane (SERM) 600, 300, 150, 75
sci fit es3 (antiaromatase) 200, 150, 100, 50
t bomb(test booster) 12 tabs, 9, 6, 3 tabs
yohimbe(test booster) 8 tabs, 6, 4, 2 tabs
rebound xt (e block t boost) 100, 75, 50, 25
cortileve 3, 2, 2, 1
t max test booster for last week of pct
cycle support twice daily
glutamine 15 g/day
creatine 5-10 g/day

Will save the rest below unless you think I need now.
long jack
tribulus
dhea


#16

After doing a little research on what you have I would critique this a little bit to look like this:

[quote]z1maxx wrote:
Thank you for all the information, I will be on for 4 more days then I will start pct. I really appreciate the support.

Diindolylmethane- 600/600/300/150: Since its essentially an herbal product and the normal dosing is 300 mg's a day I would go with this dosing scheme since 75 mg's last week would be almost useless.

Sci Fit ES3- 3caps/3caps/2caps/1cap: I'm looking at the product and I'm seeing it as Sci Fit ES3 Stack, but its discontinued. Looks like a good product, too bad it was discontinued. I can't see it as being dosed in mg's since from what I'm reading the main blend of ingredients is 200mg per cap therefore dosing in mg's would be complicated.

T Bomb- 9caps/6/6/3: I think 12 caps would be way overdoing it. Usually with t-boosters and PH products the dosing on the label is a very good format to follow. I think 2x the recommended dose would be essentially a little overkill, and since you have more than one kind of E-blocker in your pct you shouldn't have any problem with kick starting your natural test production with normal dosing's.

Yohimbe- Now, I don't know what type you have, so, I'll list what I think you need yohimbe wise. I don't believe yohimbe is a test booster, however I feel it's more of a libido booster, which is fine because some people's libido tends to bottom out during pct. So, here is what I've found on yohimbe.
Yohimbe HCL- 15mg/15mg/10mg/5mg
Yohimbe- 1500mg/1500mg/1000mg/500mg

Rebound XT- 3/3/2/1 AX's products are normally very effective at what they are intended to do, especially their older products that are now discontinued, unfortunately. I would say that the original 100mg, 4caps, would once again, in my eyes, be overkill. You really don't want to completely kill your estrogen levels, you want to restore your body's hormones back to there normal levels, and you can't do that if you completely obliterate e-levels. Plus, you don't want to risk estrogen rebound, which would, like I said before, really suck.

Cortileve- Don't know anything about this product, nor could I find anything. I would say keep with your dosing on that.

I would also begin my PCT 2-3 days before the cycle's end, but not count it towards the total length of the pct. It's essentially bridging into your pct, since most products take some time to take effect. And most PH's have a short half life so you may begin to shut down if you wait until the day after your last dose of your PH. And the name of the game is to stay anabolic as long as possible, and avoid Catabolism at all costs.

Thats just my 2 cents on everything. Everyone usually has there own opinion on things, and this one is mine so in the end it's essentially up to you to figure out which regimen you are going to use. I do think mine is a little cleaner, but usually it takes an outsider's opinion to clean some things up, almost like a rough draft in English. Anymore questions you may have feel free to ask me.


#17

Whoops, haha, I quoted the whole thing. Here it is again not quoted.

Diindolylmethane- 600/600/300/150: Since its essentially an herbal product and the normal dosing is 300 mg's a day I would go with this dosing scheme since 75 mg's last week would be almost useless.

Sci Fit ES3- 3caps/3caps/2caps/1cap: I'm looking at the product and I'm seeing it as Sci Fit ES3 Stack, but its discontinued. Looks like a good product, too bad it was discontinued. I can't see it as being dosed in mg's since from what I'm reading the main blend of ingredients is 200mg per cap therefore dosing in mg's would be complicated.

T Bomb- 9caps/6/6/3: I think 12 caps would be way overdoing it. Usually with t-boosters and PH products the dosing on the label is a very good format to follow. I think 2x the recommended dose would be essentially a little overkill, and since you have more than one kind of E-blocker in your pct you shouldn't have any problem with kick starting your natural test production with normal dosing's.

Yohimbe- Now, I don't know what type you have, so, I'll list what I think you need yohimbe wise. I don't believe yohimbe is a test booster, however I feel it's more of a libido booster, which is fine because some people's libido tends to bottom out during pct. So, here is what I've found on yohimbe.
Yohimbe HCL- 15mg/15mg/10mg/5mg
Yohimbe- 1500mg/1500mg/1000mg/500mg

Rebound XT- 3/3/2/1 AX's products are normally very effective at what they are intended to do, especially their older products that are now discontinued, unfortunately. I would say that the original 100mg, 4caps, would once again, in my eyes, be overkill. You really don't want to completely kill your estrogen levels, you want to restore your body's hormones back to there normal levels, and you can't do that if you completely obliterate e-levels. Plus, you don't want to risk estrogen rebound, which would, like I said before, really suck.

Cortileve- Don't know anything about this product, nor could I find anything. I would say keep with your dosing on that.

I would also begin my PCT 2-3 days before the cycle's end, but not count it towards the total length of the pct. It's essentially bridging into your pct, since most products take some time to take effect. And most PH's have a short half life so you may begin to shut down if you wait until the day after your last dose of your PH. And the name of the game is to stay anabolic as long as possible, and avoid Catabolism at all costs.

Thats just my 2 cents on everything. Everyone usually has there own opinion on things, and this one is mine so in the end it's essentially up to you to figure out which regimen you are going to use. I do think mine is a little cleaner, but usually it takes an outsider's opinion to clean some things up, almost like a rough draft in English. Anymore questions you may have feel free to ask me.


#18

Thanks my friend, I have a few days left to cycle, that is truly great info for me. I will follow what you have outlined and try not to overkill the estrogen. I guess you can tell that this is my first experience at this.

I have read a lot and asked a few questions so I do have the products I need, just need a little push in the right direction. The additional water intake has reduced the back pumps a little which have allowed me a few better workouts.

Okay, I am planning on finishing my cycle in a few days, that will be approximately 3 weeks on, pct for 4 weeks. What would you suggest at the end of this. For example, nothing for a couple weeks, or back to creatining and glutamine only, or take a bigger break, or possibly keep on test boosters???

I had played with the rebound for 2 weeks prior to the cycle with awsome results. Felt really strong during these weeks. Is it okay to stay on this and for how long. I know my body will need a break, what would you suggest.

Thanks a million, have a heavy day.


#19

Your welcome, I know how hard it can be to get some advice from people online, so I try to give what I've learned when possible. I just don't see the point in being an ass like alot of people like to do, it bugs the hell outta me when I see people do that, unless the person REALLY deserves it, ha.

Anyways, back to the question at hand. The general rule of thumb is to take at least 1 month off after a PH cycle to go on another one or to play with ANY hormone affecting product, which I would consider even a natty test booster.

Personally, I would say wait at least 3 months if you really want to do another one. This time will allow your body to adjust to the weight and muscle mass you just gained in that short amount of time, plus you most likely will gain another 1-3 pounds post cycle.

You want to try and keep those gains naturally through those 3 months because just like gaining that weight so fast and letting your body adjust to the weight gain, the same goes for strength.

Now, this is just my reasoning, however some people see it ok to go on another cycle with only 1-2 months after pct, but personally I'd rather go natural for 3 months and keep the gains naturally. You're going to have to adjust your maintenance diet however to be able to support the added lean mass and keep it.

As for the creatine and glutamine, go for it, it will really help you keep everything and should support more natural gains in the months to come. But remember, with creatine your gonna want to cycle it so that your body doesn't adjust itself to the dosage. I would say every 12-14 weeks take a 4 week break from it then go back on if you wish.

Once again, your welcome, always looking to try and help someone out. Feel free to keep asking if you have any more questions, I go online everyday. And if you need help setting up a next cycle,or just a question, just throw me a PM I'll most likely be able to help out or point you in the right direction.