T Nation

Help with Anxiety, Lethargy, Labs

Hello all. I know I’m under the age of this forum here but this seemed the most reasonable place to post this.

Little background I am 21 years old and am dealing with lethargy, mood swings, diminished strength, lack of recovery, mopeyness, lack of motivation. Sleep poorly, wake up nervous and nautious. I’m a university student and was basically sick all last semester.

Bad Panic attacks began last spring, but better now very rarely have full on attacks. I’ve seen psychologists and psychiatrists and have been prescribed Prozac, Effexor, Wellbutrin, and Trazodone without much explanation. Never gave the meds much of a chance as the side effects with starting them were too difficult. Took Xanax or Klonopin at low doses when my anxiety was still bad but take them very rarely now that it is under control. I tried to take the trazodone for sleep but it seemed congest me too much to sleep comfortably.

Stats:
Age: 21
Height: 5’6
Weight: ~185 lbs
Build: Average

Diet:
-Oats, cottage cheese, banana, protein powder in the morning
-“Precision Nutrition” (JB’s recipe book) chicken stir fry and chili during the day
-One or two Metabolic Drive bars during the day
-Small steak or a few eggs at night.
-Eat out on weekends or once or twice if busy during the week.
-Limit drinking to no more than once a week or less.
I no longer drink coffee or take any stimulants, drink mostly green tea and water, diet soda rarely in small amounts

Supplements:
-Multi Vitamin
-fish oil, ~6 grams/day
-3000 I.U. vitamin D3
-500mg vitamin C
-1 pill B-complex
-ZMA at night
-Few cups green tea

Exercise:
I try to lift 3 days a week upper/lower alternating split, cardio and accessory work twice a week. Even so I seem to burn out before the week is over. Have trouble holding on to muscle especially in my upper body small amounts of stress seem to eat up any gains.

I’ve had some blood work done and I have an appointment with an endocrinologist but not until January.

Blood Results:

Lipid Panel W LDL/HDL RATIO
Cholesterol, Total: 196 (100-199 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 153 (0-149 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol: 41 (>39 mg/dL)
VLDL Cholesterol Cal: 31 (5-40 mg/dL)
LDL Cholesterol Cal: 124 (0-99 mg/dL)
LDL/HDL Ratio: 3.0 (0.0-3.6 ratio units)

Prolactin
Prolactin: 8.6 (2.1-17.7 ng/mL)

FSH and LH
LH: 4.9 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
FSH: 3.3 (1.4-18.1 mIU/mL)

Testosterone (Free)
Free Testosterone (Direct): 16.1 (9.3-26.5 pg/mL)

Testosterone Total
Testosterone, Serum: 321 (241-827 ng/dL)

Triiodothyronine (T3) Total
Triiodothyronine (T3): 131 (85-205 ng/dL)

Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum: 3.3 (2.3-4.2 pg/mL)

Thyroxine, Free
T4, Free (Direct): 1.31 (0.61-1.76 ng/dL)

Assay, Thyroid Stim Hormone
TSH: 1.600 (0.450-4.500 uIU/mL)

Estradiol
Estradiol: 38 (0-53 pg/mL)

Salivary Cortisol X4, Timed
Salivary Cortisol #1: 0.500 ug/dL (range 8am: 0.025-0.600) (taken @ 10:15)
Salivary Cortisol #4: 0.230 ug/dL (range Noon: <0.010-0.330) (taken @ 14:30)
Salivary Cortisol #2: 0.015 ug/dL (range 4pm: 0.010-0.200) (taken @ 16:12)
Salivary Cortisol #3: <0.010 ug/dL (range Midnight <0.010-.090) (taken @ 20:50)

Comp Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum: 93 (65-99 mg/dL)
Bun: 20 (5-26 mg/dL)
Creatinine: 1.00 (0.76-1.27 mg/dL)
Glom Filt Rate, Est: >59 (>59 mL/min/1.73)
Bun/Creatinine Ratio: 20 (8-27)
Sodium, Serum: 137 (135-145 mmol/L)
Potassium, Serum: 4.1 (3.5-5.2 mmol/L)
Chloride, Serum: 97 (97-108 mmol/L)
Carbon Dioxide, Total: 25 (20-32 mmol/L)
Calcium, Serum: 9.9 (8.5-10.6 mg/dL)
Protein, Total: 8.0 (6.0-8.5 g/dL)
Albumin, Serum: 4.8 (3.5-5.5 g/dL)
Globulin, Total: 3.2 (1.5-4.5 g/dL)
A/G Ratio: 1.5 (1.1-2.5)
Bilirubin, Total: 0.5 (0.1-1.2 mg/dL)
Alkaline Phosphatase, Serum: 97 (25-150 IU/L)
AST (SGOT): 21 (0-40 IU/L)
AST (SGPT): 27 (0-55 IU/L)

Any comments would be appreciated. I’m really tired of the lethargy, mopeyness, lack of motivation, and poor recovery/strength.

Thanks,
-Zeus

Wow! For a man your age your Testosterone level should be at the top of the test range or there about, and your Estradiol level is much higher than optimum too. The low T and and high E2 would explain some of your cholesterol issues, but mostly the lethargy, and lack of recovery, etc.

If I were you, I would PM KSman here and ask him about your test results. He one of the most knowledgeable hormone guys here, and is very willing to help.

I think that you have some degree of HPTA repression from E2=38. And that level would be expected to create mood, energy, libido and some ED problems.

What drugs are you talking, Rx or OTC? These need to be reviewed for affects on T&E. If you are carrying too much fat, that can lock you into a estrogen problem that makes fat loss difficult or impossible. Past medication you could have promoted that. You can PM with any details that you do not want to post.

Did you mature early and fast? Are you highly virilized [body hair, stronger facial bone features]. Hair loss? Using an hair loss drugs - ever? Any steroid use history?

You seem to have some adrenal problems. Perhaps adrenal fatigue. Do you have situations where stresses knock you down and leave you feeling drained? When you did the 4x cortisol, was there anything unusual about that day? Overly stressful? A quiet day on a weekend? How do did you feel at the hours where cortisol tanked? How often do you feel that way? How did you feel the the day of the tests earlier when the cortisol levels were higher? How often you feel that way? How often do you have a pattern of feeling better in the AM and getting exhausted later in the day? How often do you reach for caffeine or something sweet when you feel drained?

Please post results for fasting serum glucose as we need to consider whether insulin resistance or syndrome-X is a factor. [But rare at your age.]

Do you ever supplement with DHEA? Tested DHEA-S? If you tested progesterone levels, that might provide a clue to the low cortisol. Progesterone is made in the adrenals which is then converted to cortisol.

Supplementing DHEA and/or progesterone can support the adrenals.

Panic attacks weaken the adrenals. At some point… one cannot cope.

Trazodone: Perhaps your dose is too high. Have your tried melatonin? [I used both.]

Effexor and Wellbutrin can both be stimulating and this could worsen adrenal fatigue. SSRIs will tend to increase E, lower T and will mess with sexual function. There are other ways to increase dopamine that are not stimulating.

How much caffeine do you use [sodas]? Stimulant use? Ephedra use/history? How much coffee did you take in the past? When did you stop. Stimulants tan exhaust the adrenals. Green tea - you can get decafe green tea.

From a therapy point of view, 0.5mg anastrozole per week in divided EOD dosing would be very helpful. You still need to get a handle on the cause of all of this. Guys with that much E can feel like crap with high T levels. With your low T level, your T:E ratio is 2 or 3 times worse than what cause problems for TRT guys.

[quote]KNB wrote:
Wow! For a man your age your Testosterone level should be at the top of the test range or there about, and your Estradiol level is much higher than optimum too. The low T and and high E2 would explain some of your cholesterol issues, but mostly the lethargy, and lack of recovery, etc.
[/quote]

I do not see a real problem with his cholesterol numbers. The ranges for LDL exist to sell statin drugs. We know that TRT lowers higher cholesterol numbers in older guys. If he gets his hormone issues resolved, the cholesterol numbers might improve. Note that LEF.org considered t-chol=180 to be optimal.

KSman,
I was referring to his high triglycerides, not his total cholesterol. But once again you are right on, I just wasn’t specific…

[quote]KSman wrote:
I think that you have some degree of HPTA repression from E2=38. And that level would be expected to create mood, energy, libido and some ED problems.

What drugs are you talking, Rx or OTC? These need to be reviewed for affects on T&E. If you are carrying too much fat, that can lock you into a estrogen problem that makes fat loss difficult or impossible. Past medication you could have promoted that. You can PM with any details that you do not want to post.

Did you mature early and fast? Are you highly virilized [body hair, stronger facial bone features]. Hair loss? Using an hair loss drugs - ever? Any steroid use history?

You seem to have some adrenal problems. Perhaps adrenal fatigue. Do you have situations where stresses knock you down and leave you feeling drained? When you did the 4x cortisol, was there anything unusual about that day? Overly stressful? A quiet day on a weekend? How do did you feel at the hours where cortisol tanked? How often do you feel that way? How did you feel the the day of the tests earlier when the cortisol levels were higher? How often you feel that way? How often do you have a pattern of feeling better in the AM and getting exhausted later in the day? How often do you reach for caffeine or something sweet when you feel drained?

Please post results for fasting serum glucose as we need to consider whether insulin resistance or syndrome-X is a factor. [But rare at your age.]

Do you ever supplement with DHEA? Tested DHEA-S? If you tested progesterone levels, that might provide a clue to the low cortisol. Progesterone is made in the adrenals which is then converted to cortisol.

Supplementing DHEA and/or progesterone can support the adrenals.

Panic attacks weaken the adrenals. At some point… one cannot cope.

Trazodone: Perhaps your dose is too high. Have your tried melatonin? [I used both.]

Effexor and Wellbutrin can both be stimulating and this could worsen adrenal fatigue. SSRIs will tend to increase E, lower T and will mess with sexual function. There are other ways to increase dopamine that are not stimulating.

How much caffeine do you use [sodas]? Stimulant use? Ephedra use/history? How much coffee did you take in the past? When did you stop. Stimulants tan exhaust the adrenals. Green tea - you can get decafe green tea.

From a therapy point of view, 0.5mg anastrozole per week in divided EOD dosing would be very helpful. You still need to get a handle on the cause of all of this. Guys with that much E can feel like crap with high T levels. With your low T level, your T:E ratio is 2 or 3 times worse than what cause problems for TRT guys.[/quote]

KSman, we did an interview over pm awhile back.

I am carrying fat but nothing too excessive. Never been tested but I’d guess I’m around 15-17% bf. Can only see upper abs when flexing.

Right now no otc drugs other then recently trying trazodone. Never were on any AD meds for extended periods of time (less than one month). Haven’t taken any benzo’s for one or two months and before that only .25mg every one or two weeks depending on the anxiety.

Tried the trazodone at 50mg, 25mg, and 12.5mg, so I don’t think I was taking to much. Seemed to congested my head. Not sure if those effects are supposed to go away with time but it seemed like I was going to get a head cold if I continued taking it. I tend to get sick easily. Falling asleep is difficult.

Matured normally, normal facial hair, body hair, etc. No steroids or prohormones, etc. Hair is thinning rapidly but I am not taking any hair loss drugs (read posts about DHT, don’t want to mess with a already messed up hormonal system)

Cortisol test were taken during a pretty normal work day over the summer. Very low stress job. Tired in morning, takes multiple hours to feel awake. Sometimes crash again in late afternoon 5:00/6:00pm. Feel the most awake late at night, when I should be going to bed. Difficult to fall asleep. Normally eat every few hours. If I miss a meal I get very wired, sweaty, and have headaches. Sweat excessively under any kind of stress.

Rarely eat candy, sweets, etc. If I missed a meal or am really hungry I try to get somethings substantial (i.e. sub sandwich). 4th year university student. First one to two years drank a decent amount of coffee, energy drinks, and sometimes OTC stimulants (mostly Biotest brand Spike, etc.) Cut back to only one or two cups of coffee a day in second year and third year. Dropped all coffee/stimulants since the spring except green tea which I can tolerate. Never used ephedra or any prescription stimulants/fat loss drugs (amphetamines/thyroid/clen/etc.)

Glucose, Serum: 93 (65-99 mg/dL) taken late morning fasted.

Have not had progesterone or DHEA-S tested. Have not taken DHEA yet. Read the “Adrenal Fatigue” book by Wilson. Going to try to implement some of its suggestions but hesitant to mess with anything directly hormonal before I see an endo. However I’m trying to prepare myself with research and info before I see one. It was hard enough to get the simple blood test approved. I’m afraid they might just write me off because I’m 21.

[quote]KNB wrote:
KSman,
I was referring to his high triglycerides, not his total cholesterol. But once again you are right on, I just wasn’t specific…[/quote]

Still a bit confused by the cascade of hormones. Here is what I’m piecing together
-T aromatizes into E, high E can cause emotional problems, lethargy, and other symptoms
-Ideal E2 might be around 22pg/mL
-Low total T can cause problems in the first place, aromatization of already low T can exacerbate things
-Cholesterol is the building block of most hormones.
-The pathway splits somewhere to make cortisol. This would be taking away from the raw materials need to make Test and other sex hormones if to much is being made?
-DHEA is one of the building blocks of the sex hormones. Which is why supping with it might help.
-All of this is tied together in the HPTA, and we need to find out where things are getting messed up…?

I think I genetically have high triglyerides. My father has very high triglyerides, much higher than expected for his weight. Drugs brought his down (statins I believe?)

T and other things are made from DHEA. Only when low DHEA is limiting T production can DHEA replacement increase T [in males]. With females, more DHEA will increase T production in the adrenals, which is outside of the HPOA control loop. Same happens with males, but the delta increase in T is not significant for males.

Refer to this:

  • not much point in my talking around that. Look at the diagrams. Follow the links in the articles. Note the pathways from progesterone to the cortisol. Note that these hormone transitions do not happen spontaneously, these changes require enzymes. The enzymes for these are in the horizontal and vertical bars in the diagram. Follow the links in the article.

These links need to be looked at and are at the bottom of the above wiki.
http://www.1lec.com/Biochemistry/Steroid%20Hormone/index.html
the above is easy to understand and this is too deep:


the third link leads to:
http://www.nursa.org/flash/gene/nuclearreceptor/controller.swf?
click the topic bars on the left side and click play.

Bumping my own old thread. Waited months to get an appointment with an endocrinologist, very disappointing. He basically looked at my labs, saw for the most part I was “in range” and said I was fine. He wouldn’t comment on anything either; lower T, higher E2, cortisol, or most importantly my actual symptoms, etc. I guess the talk around here about doctors that treat you as nothing more than numbers is true.

/End Rant

Anyways the reality is as a college student I can only afford messing around so much. Ideally I would be trying many supplements to get a little natural boost but what is the point if you have to sacrifice the basics for something fancy. That and you can only supp and will your body so far.

I guess my question is to those of you who were written off my normal doctors, what was your next course of action, and was it financially worth it lol.

Thank you
-ZEUS

Hey BIGZEUS. Your situation sounds all too familiar. My advice for now is to avoid self-experimentation at all costs. I had lab results for T and e2 almost spot on with yours and decided to try some liquidex. I tanked my e2 and have felt even worse since then. LOW e2 caused me to have panic attacks (they really suck, right? never had them before but wow) and I’m still having issues. Everybody is different and maybe e2 plays a role in your problems, but it’s really not as cut and dry as knocking your e2 down to a certain number. e2= 20 is perfect for some and e2=40 is fine for others. For the testosterone lab, it’s also known that mental stress can knock T levels down through a variety of mechanisms. But what came first… the chicken or the egg? Testosterone is regarded by some as a “cleaner” way of treating depression and mental problems than ssri’s, etc. because the body knows what to do with testosterone but has a harder time dealing with synthetic drugs like prozac.

I would say if these problems are severely impacting your life (and they probably are seeing that you are on this board posting) that you should keep trying new doctors until you find one that actually cares about you. I am a student as well and have fallen into the trap of giving up because of limited resources. But then I realize that life this way sucks and why not keep trying various doctors within your insurance network. Along the way hopefully you can acquire more labs. Right now you have one snapshot of your body’s chemistry. That is not enough in my opinion. Bouncing doctor’s can be a pain in the ass, but I have acquired enough labwork along the way to gain a more definitive understanding of my problems.

[quote]chemman wrote:
Hey BIGZEUS. Your situation sounds all too familiar. My advice for now is to avoid self-experimentation at all costs. I had lab results for T and e2 almost spot on with yours and decided to try some liquidex. I tanked my e2 and have felt even worse since then. LOW e2 caused me to have panic attacks (they really suck, right? never had them before but wow) and I’m still having issues. Everybody is different and maybe e2 plays a role in your problems, but it’s really not as cut and dry as knocking your e2 down to a certain number. e2= 20 is perfect for some and e2=40 is fine for others. For the testosterone lab, it’s also known that mental stress can knock T levels down through a variety of mechanisms. But what came first… the chicken or the egg? Testosterone is regarded by some as a “cleaner” way of treating depression and mental problems than ssri’s, etc. because the body knows what to do with testosterone but has a harder time dealing with synthetic drugs like prozac.

I would say if these problems are severely impacting your life (and they probably are seeing that you are on this board posting) that you should keep trying new doctors until you find one that actually cares about you. I am a student as well and have fallen into the trap of giving up because of limited resources. But then I realize that life this way sucks and why not keep trying various doctors within your insurance network. Along the way hopefully you can acquire more labs. Right now you have one snapshot of your body’s chemistry. That is not enough in my opinion. Bouncing doctor’s can be a pain in the ass, but I have acquired enough labwork along the way to gain a more definitive understanding of my problems.
[/quote]

chemman,

Thank You for the advice. I’m attempting to be conservative and cautious with anything I do myself or even with what a doctor prescribes. Technically I could be on decent amounts of AD med’s and benzo’s now but the rewards are not worth the risks and moreso I’m able to control some symptoms without medication now.

And yea panic attacks suck, enough that you’ll send yourself to the hospital if you don’t know whats going on lol. It is more of a quality of life issue now rather than one of “I am functioning/not functioning.”

I am getting my T and Cortisol retested soon (that is all I was able to convince the last doc to test).

[quote]BIGZEUS wrote:

[quote]chemman wrote:
Hey BIGZEUS. Your situation sounds all too familiar. My advice for now is to avoid self-experimentation at all costs. I had lab results for T and e2 almost spot on with yours and decided to try some liquidex. I tanked my e2 and have felt even worse since then. LOW e2 caused me to have panic attacks (they really suck, right? never had them before but wow) and I’m still having issues.

Everybody is different and maybe e2 plays a role in your problems, but it’s really not as cut and dry as knocking your e2 down to a certain number. e2= 20 is perfect for some and e2=40 is fine for others. For the testosterone lab, it’s also known that mental stress can knock T levels down through a variety of mechanisms. But what came first… the chicken or the egg?

Testosterone is regarded by some as a “cleaner” way of treating depression and mental problems than ssri’s, etc. because the body knows what to do with testosterone but has a harder time dealing with synthetic drugs like prozac.

I would say if these problems are severely impacting your life (and they probably are seeing that you are on this board posting) that you should keep trying new doctors until you find one that actually cares about you. I am a student as well and have fallen into the trap of giving up because of limited resources.

But then I realize that life this way sucks and why not keep trying various doctors within your insurance network. Along the way hopefully you can acquire more labs. Right now you have one snapshot of your body’s chemistry. That is not enough in my opinion. Bouncing doctor’s can be a pain in the ass, but I have acquired enough labwork along the way to gain a more definitive understanding of my problems.
[/quote]

chemman,

Thank You for the advice. I’m attempting to be conservative and cautious with anything I do myself or even with what a doctor prescribes. Technically I could be on decent amounts of AD med’s and benzo’s now but the rewards are not worth the risks and moreso I’m able to control some symptoms without medication now.

And yea panic attacks suck, enough that you’ll send yourself to the hospital if you don’t know whats going on lol. It is more of a quality of life issue now rather than one of “I am functioning/not functioning.”

I am getting my T and Cortisol retested soon (that is all I was able to convince the last doc to test). [/quote]

I had a pretty good experience with liquidex. 3 drop every day took me from 41 to 18. Dropped 10lbs and no longer crash in the late afternoon. I was crashing hard at about 3-4 pm every day. I am sure the liquidex had positive effect on T but I was also taking Alpha Male when it was tested last and it was still a little low. I still have issues but this was huge step in the right direction.

I would start here. Liquidex and E2 tests are cheap. Once you get E where you want it get free T tested again and see if it has improved.

So someone self medicates with adex and crashes E2. If a doctor prescribes the same drug, the same thing would happen. Doc’s do not know about anastrozole over responders as this is not described in the drug literature. Guys need to be careful about dosing and mindful of the issues and early symptoms.

When women take anastrozole, very low estrogen is the goal and some women will be over responders, but their symptoms will be mostly the same as normal responders. It is really only a issue for a few men when low dose anastrozole is used to modulate E2 levels.

So my doc retested TT and Cortisol

Testosterone Total
Testosterone Serum (ng/dL): 299 Range: 280-800

Cortisol
Cortisol Serum (ug/dL): 16.6 Range: 2.3-19.4

Tests taken ~9:00 am

Doc says it’s fine. Not sure how to interpret one serum cortisol number but it looks like TT is not going to move on its own. Thinking it might worth it to bring down E2 on my own with some adex and just get someone to take regular blood work in the mean time.

This is really a pain…

[quote]BIGZEUS wrote:
So my doc retested TT and Cortisol

Testosterone Total
Testosterone Serum (ng/dL): 299 Range: 280-800

Cortisol
Cortisol Serum (ug/dL): 16.6 Range: 2.3-19.4

Tests taken ~9:00 am

Doc says it’s fine. Not sure how to interpret one serum cortisol number but it looks like TT is not going to move on its own. Thinking it might worth it to bring down E2 on my own with some adex and just get someone to take regular blood work in the mean time.

This is really a pain…
[/quote]
Huge pain. My work and travel schedule is crazy right now. I have used this as an excuse to delay the painful process of finding a decent doc. There are things you can do on your own to make small improvements until you find a doc willing to sort it out. The following has helped me a bit:

  • z12 for sleep. ZMA. Diet. - Tot T went from 224 to 327.
  • E2 from 41 to 18 - biggest improvement noticed. Tot T went to 531. Was also taking AlphaMale, but I feel pretty much the same when not taking it. Free T has stayed around the same, so the biggest improvement was gettting E2 down.

[quote]dhickey wrote:

[quote]BIGZEUS wrote:
So my doc retested TT and Cortisol

Testosterone Total
Testosterone Serum (ng/dL): 299 Range: 280-800

Cortisol
Cortisol Serum (ug/dL): 16.6 Range: 2.3-19.4

Tests taken ~9:00 am

Doc says it’s fine. Not sure how to interpret one serum cortisol number but it looks like TT is not going to move on its own. Thinking it might worth it to bring down E2 on my own with some adex and just get someone to take regular blood work in the mean time.

This is really a pain…
[/quote]
Huge pain. My work and travel schedule is crazy right now. I have used this as an excuse to delay the painful process of finding a decent doc. There are things you can do on your own to make small improvements until you find a doc willing to sort it out. The following has helped me a bit:

  • z12 for sleep. ZMA. Diet. - Tot T went from 224 to 327.
  • E2 from 41 to 18 - biggest improvement noticed. Tot T went to 531. Was also taking AlphaMale, but I feel pretty much the same when not taking it. Free T has stayed around the same, so the biggest improvement was gettting E2 down.

[/quote]

Yea I’m doing much of that already too. Working on my adrenal health so stims are def out for energy. Instead B complex, Vitamin C, plenty of complex carbs (Energy really drops without them in most meals), green tea, good sat. fats, and not stressing out lol.

[quote]BIGZEUS wrote:
So my doc retested TT and Cortisol

Testosterone Total
Testosterone Serum (ng/dL): 299 Range: 280-800

Cortisol
Cortisol Serum (ug/dL): 16.6 Range: 2.3-19.4

Tests taken ~9:00 am

Doc says it’s fine. Not sure how to interpret one serum cortisol number but it looks like TT is not going to move on its own. Thinking it might worth it to bring down E2 on my own with some adex and just get someone to take regular blood work in the mean time.

This is really a pain…
[/quote]

I’m going to throw this out here once again. I would stay away from the arimidex (or any self-experimentation for that matter) until you have more information surrounding your situation. You may be reading that high E2 can have deleterious mental effects, but what you are not realizing is how many essential functions that hormone serves in your body. Also, you have low T…period. Fix that and then see if you NEED an AI. You can go ahead and tank your E2 but I’ve been there and done that and it ain’t worth it. This is your body and you only get one. Finally, I hate to break it to you but getting proper TREATMENT from your standard GP, ENDO, or whatever probably will not happen. You can get some more labs to send you in the right direction but what you need is a specialist. PM me and I will send you to a message board that will get you going the right direction. Also, where are you located?

If you go balls to the wall all the time and have not taken some time off, try it. 2 weeks minimum, no weights. Get as much sleep as possible. If this starts to alleviate your symptoms, take more time as needed. Many of these symptoms sound like over-training. Do you also have an elevated heart rate and blood pressure? If so, you can use those as your marker. When your blood pressure gets back to within normal limits, you start training again. When it goes up, you back off. Try this simple fix before you start experimenting with pharmaceuticals. The chances of you needing to do that at your age are slim.

[quote]chemman wrote:

I’m going to throw this out here once again. I would stay away from the arimidex (or any self-experimentation for that matter) until you have more information surrounding your situation. You may be reading that high E2 can have deleterious mental effects, but what you are not realizing is how many essential functions that hormone serves in your body. Also, you have low T…period. Fix that and then see if you NEED an AI. You can go ahead and tank your E2 but I’ve been there and done that and it ain’t worth it. This is your body and you only get one. Finally, I hate to break it to you but getting proper TREATMENT from your standard GP, ENDO, or whatever probably will not happen. You can get some more labs to send you in the right direction but what you need is a specialist. PM me and I will send you to a message board that will get you going the right direction. Also, where are you located?[/quote]

Thanks again for the advice. Before I do anything however need to at least find someone to do the bloodwork I ask for. I’d like to get my DHEAS tested, possibly progesterone, and my 4x/day salivary cortisol rested to see how my adrenal health is coming along.

Also I am not necessarily looking to “tank” my E2, just bring it a notch or two down from 38 pg/mL it’s around now. This won’t “fix” my low T, but might bump it up a tad. Again no reason to try it without at least regular blood work. Preferably full medical supervision by a progressive and educated doctor.

[quote]STFD23 wrote:
If you go balls to the wall all the time and have not taken some time off, try it. 2 weeks minimum, no weights. Get as much sleep as possible. If this starts to alleviate your symptoms, take more time as needed. Many of these symptoms sound like over-training. Do you also have an elevated heart rate and blood pressure? If so, you can use those as your marker. When your blood pressure gets back to within normal limits, you start training again. When it goes up, you back off. Try this simple fix before you start experimenting with pharmaceuticals. The chances of you needing to do that at your age are slim. [/quote]

Thanks. BP was higher while dealing with anxiety/panic stuff. It has come down however since then. I’ve taken multiple breaks from lifing and both mental and physical overexertion. Some as long as a month away from anything intense in the gym. My recovery has always been below average, what pushes me over the edge might be considered undertraining for some. It just has gotten worse over the past year where I feel like some sort of treatment might be useful.