T Nation

Help with a Mass Building Program


#1

I read the
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article//how_to_design_a_damn_good_program_part_1

How to design a damn good program - CT

And there he says I can chose between

Body part splits, Antagonist training, etc.

Now, before that I was attempting to build mass on a total body training but I didn't stay on the program long enough to see substantial results. I am guessing I will acquire more mass with a program like this one. The only problem is that my total body routine allowed me to have two consecutive rest days a week, which I took on friday and saturday because thats when I usually go for a beer with friends and get with them ladies. When I train on these days I become very tired and unsociable.

Is there any way I can include any of split routines suggested by CT with two consecutive days of rest?


#2

Sunday: Chest/Back
Monday: Biceps/Triceps
Tuesday: Recovery
Wednesday: Quads/Hamstrings
Thursday: Anterior and lateral delts/Rear delts/ Abs
Friday: Recovery
Saturday: Recovery

Would something like this be acceptable?
with 6 exercises per sessions maximum


#3

Please critique the following routine I designed:

ps. I am 17

  • 165 pounds
  • around 15-17 % body fat
  • Mesomorhph type body
  • 5’95
  • only been lifting seriously for 4 months but two years overall

#4

Although you have some overlap going on here (meaning some indirect work for a musclegroup on a different day than you actually set out to train it) some higher frequency training with some exercise rotation might be a better bet for you at your stage of developement.

Maybe Upper/Lower 3 days a week might be better. Choose a Bench day, a squat day,a overhead press day and a deadlift day and focus accessory work around that…Maybe have a look a Cephalic Carnage’s Wendler 5-3-1 in his thread. Also, don’t structure your training around your drinking days…lol

If you are very serious and want to pack on some serious meat with massive eating have a look at the OTS BBB thread the 4 and 6 day are both brilliant…

If you really want to go with the above type split I would suggest redesigning the split so that you would have at least one huge compound movement per day like squats, deads, bench, dips,overhead press etc.
A day with only bi’s and tri’s seams useless to me if serious mass is your goal. Triggering hormonal responses from huge compounds is where it is at.

Maybe a 3-way split done four days a week will be a good start, causing about once per 5 days frequency Monday= Chest, back, Wednesday=Shoulders,arms,Thursday= Legs and Saturday=Chest,Back again with Monday being Shoulders arms again etc. etc.

I also think having 3 exercises for bi’s and tri’s each is overkill at your stage and focusing on heavy DB and BB curls and dips/skull crusher/close grip bench with focus on increasing strength will net musch better gains. Also rear delts? you weigh 165. Deads and rows and even chins will stimulate them enough for now…

Stick with a program for at least 6 months before even starting to think about changing it up and even then a few changes in the exercises here and there can have one progress for years on the same program…Hard heavy basic lifting with focus on strength with massive high protein, clean eating is how it should be done.


#5

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
Please critique the following routine I designed:

ps. I am 17

  • 165 pounds
  • around 15-17 % body fat
  • Mesomorhph type body
  • 5’95
  • only been lifting seriously for 4 months but two years overall[/quote]

That routine looks pretty good but… Leg day… yeah…

Leg day will work for you, considering that you have just started. But once you start squatting/deadlifting over 315lbs you are going to need to split that up.


#6

would this split be a bit better then?

And overlapping is good for me isnt it? I head that since I am a teen, I need max 48 hours of recovery and I should train each body part around twice per week.


#7

Also, theres no point doing leg press twice in the same workout…


#8

No, that will not be better and I still think it is overkill for a beginner.

I do not think now is the time to design your own routine.

Choose a generic routine such as any proven 5x5 or SPBR which have built solid foundations on A LOT of people.

Get the 3 exercise per body part thing out of your head. Why do 15 sets per day for quads when 5 can be enough?

Learn to back squat properly. For example- Back squats and Glute ham raises/reverse hypers are fine for one leg/hip day and deads and leg press will be fine for another leg/hip day. Bench press and incline press are all you need for chest now. ONE overhead press per session is also fine-why two as on your Thursday workout? It’s like Barbell flat benching and then doing DB flat bench afterwards…what’s the point? Shrugs are not needed when one does heavy deadlifts- maybe when you are advanced but not now. Your Wednesday leg day is ridiculous-28 sets with leg press twice in the routine and yes I know one is sumo for hams but why? It is not needed now or ever. A good leg day will be Squats 5x5 followed by GHR’s for 3 x 10 followed by calve raises 3 x 15. That can be enough if you work your arse off. You get what I’m trying to show you? Simple and less is best.

Go read up on a Simple power based routine.- That will be the best start for you and get you a very solid foundation if you eat correctly.


#9

alright.
The second leg press was supposed to be a le curl.

I tried my leg workout at the gym today… and gosh you’re right it kills.

I found out today I can’t handle normal squats with feet shoulder width apart because my lower back is very weak and I can only do half a squat before bending my back and starting to hurt it.

Today I did squats with feet appart from each other (like a sumo dead lift stance). Still weak though (175 pounds). Its the first time I’ve ever squatted in any way though.

Same thing happens to my dead lift. If I dont have my feet way spread appart, My back bends over and it hurts.

So I am going to strengthen my lower back for 6-8 weeks and then continue with heavier lifting in squats and ddlfs.

You think a 400 cal surplus is good enough? I have a lowered maintenance requirement due to intense dieting in the past so 3000 cals in already a 400 cal surplus.


#10

And Grinde.

Do you think a full body routine
On Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday.
with a total of 6 exercises in each (4 compounds 2 isolation)

Do you think that would be a good template for me to follow?


#11

oh shit just realized I have two conflicting opiniong :stuck_out_tongue:
Goodfellow or Grinder hmmm?
I will do some research and try different things out.


#12

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
oh shit just realized I have two conflicting opiniong :stuck_out_tongue:
Goodfellow or Grinder hmmm?
I will do some research and try different things out.[/quote]

No dude, you don’t need to research, you just need to go and train.

When you are looking for advice you need to read between the lines.

Mine and grinders advice is essentially the same thing. You just need a program that leaves you fresh each time you go in to train a bodypart/exercise.

But you must remember one very important thing:

As long as you are progressively adding weight/reps/improving your form on key exercises every time you train, you will get bigger and stronger.

Also, with bench press/squats/deadlift, form plays a big role in their progression. So make sure you practice that.

A problem with new squatters is that they don’t keep their upper body upright enough (due to tight hamstrings/hip flexors), and don’t sit back with their hips. So watch out for that.

Here is a quick basic routine that I’m sure will give you some solid gains, not a lot different than yours, but spaces things out better.

day1 - squats (Back squats:5x5, Leg press:4x8, Calf raises:3x12 & Abs)
day2 - off
day3 - chest/triceps (Bench press:5x5, Inc bench press:5x5, Skullcrushers:4x6, Tri Pushdown:4x6-8)
day4 - deadlifts (Deadlift:5x5, Stiffleg Deads:3x8, Lyin leg curl:4x10 & abs )
day5 - off
day6 - upper back/biceps (lat pulldown:5x10, DB or BB row:4x6-8, Seated cable row:4x6-8, DB curl 3x8, Preacher curl 3x10)
day7 - shoulders/traps (Overhead BB press:5x5, DB press:3x8, lat raise:3x10, BB shrug:4x8-10)

Ramp up weight GRADUALLY each set until you get to the heaviest weight you can do for prescribed reps (practice form/speed on earlier sets)

Each week either try to add another rep with the weight you used before, or add slightly more weight (5-10lbs)

Make sure you use good form and feel the correct muscles working.

The only thing that goes against what grinder is saying here, is that I’m giving you two overhead pressing exercises. I think two overhead exercises are necassery when you aren’t using that much weight. When you get stronger, stick to just one.


#13

Such a thurough answer.
Thank you.

Do you know around roughly how much rest I should give my muscles in between sets? And how long to spend at the gym?

And may god bless you. You are like the lucky charm of t-men.


#14

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
Do you know around roughly how much rest I should give my muscles in between sets? And how long to spend at the gym?[/quote]

No set answers here.

Give yourself enough rest so you are ready to go into the next set and perform well (can be from 30 sec to 3 minutes)

As for the time you spend at the gym, I don’t think it matters.

Just go in, get your shit done and leave.


#15

cool.
Do you recomend training to failure at every exercise?

CT was bashing this a while ago.


#16

[quote]Aprentice wrote:
cool.
Do you recomend training to failure at every exercise?

CT was bashing this a while ago.[/quote]

Well… I’m still figuring this one out.

I’m a very aggressive, very intense person. I usually get very amped up before my all out lifts and push with as much intensity as I can. After the end of that set it takes me 5 minutes at least to recover my breath and go to the next exercise.

This… worked, but I can’t do this all the time, it’s very energy draining. So if you don’t muster up that intensity, you can’t do as much and your progress stalls.

I was lifting more with adrenaline than just muscle.

If you watch Frank McGrath’s bodybuilding vids on youtube, I would say that is a much better way to approach each workout. CONTROLLED intensity, stopping short perhaps 1 rep before failure.

You can stick with that approach for a lot longer, and continue to make steady gains.

I think someone should know how to pull out scary amounts of intensity when they need to though.


#17

Here is frank mcgrath training chest

p1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4v_XzJDwWM

p2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyH6o0khRso

p3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDrjIxPD4Jc