T Nation

Help with 5/3/1 BBB Accessory Work

#1

I have been doing 5/3/1 for about 6 months now. here's my routine:

OHP day: OHP 5/3/1 sets with FSL AMRAP set
bench 5x10@50% super set with lat. pulls 5x10
close grip cable rows 5x10
incline bench 3x10 (incline DB hurt my shoulders)
shrugs 3x15

Deadlift day: deads 5/3/1 with FSL AMRAP set
squats 5x10@50%
hanging leg lifts 3x15 (or any other exercises I want to hit)

Bench day: bench 5/3/1 with FSL AMRAP set
OHP 5x10@50% super set with lat. pulls 5x10
BB rows 5x10
weighted dips 5x10
face pulls 3x10

Squats day: squat 5/3/1 with FSL AMRAP set.
deads 5x10@50%
ham curls 5x10.

I have made good progress this way however my bench has been stuck for a couple cycles. I need more sets for bench that are higher % then 50. I was reading the books and came across a part where it says for BBB sets I can do 5x5@80.

so I want to try and substitute 5x5 in place of the 5x10 however would it be better to not do the "less boring" option that way? (deads with BBB squats, bench with BBB OHP etc,etc.)? would it be better to hit the 5/3/1 sets with the same 5x5 sets or alternate like above? critique this routine please and any input

Squat FSL Before Deadlift 5/3/1?
#2

Congrats on the progress. Personally, I think you’re doing way too much accessory work. Overhead presses, + bench, + incline is a lot of trice work. Focus on the big lifts. And drop the training max back 10-15 lbs. on the bench.

Here is what is working for me.

Bench Press 5/3/1 pyramid. So after your last working set, drop the weight and do the second working set for a triple and then do 5 sets of 5-8 of your first set. So it’s multiple sets of first set last.

If your training max is 200, it looks like this:

After warmup

5 x 150, 3 x 170, 1+ x 190, 3 x 170, 5 x (5-8) X 150

On squat days, throw in some bench after. 5 x 10 x 60-70% of max, which in this example would be 135.

Also pullups in sets of 3 in between sets of everything will help as well

#3

that might be true I didn’t see that until now I guess I never looked at it. I just need more time under the bar benching. the 5/3/1 and 5x10 of such a low weight isn’t getting me anywhere. I would prefer a 5x5@80 on another day.

my question was would I do
OHP 5/3/1 then 5x5@80% OHP supersetted the 5x5 with lat pulls and maybe throw out incline presses?

#4

what I guess im trying to say is I want the 5x5@80 for the extra heavy sets to help my strength gains because im kinda getting tired of the 5x10@50 for now. I wanted to try and set up the program but don’t know how the 5x5@80% would work on the “less boring” version because it would be hard to squat and deadlift 2 times a week around 80% every week.

#5

OHP day:
OHP 5/3/1 sets
BBB bench 5x5@80 super set with lat pulls 5x10
close grip cable rows 5x10
incline bench 3x10 (or take them out and put on deadlift day?
shrugs 3x15
I was also suggested to put tricep isolation in on this day but you say doing 3 exercises that day is too much so what is our advice?

Deadlift day:
dead 5/3/1 sets
squat 5x5@80%
ab work
and then maybe some calves

Bench day:
bench 5/3/1
OHP 5x5@80% superset with lat pulls 5x10
BB rows 5x10
weighted dips 5x10
face pulls 3x10

Squat day:
squat 5/3/1
deadlift 5x5@80%
ham curls 5x10
maybe some ab and calves?

im not trying to sound like a turd or say that you don’t know what your talking about cause I can bet you know more then I do. but I use the 5/3/1 calc on black iron beast and that’s how it has it set up as far as the 5/3/1 sets and BBB assistance. all the extra assistance besides the 5/3/1 sets and BBB assistance is my doing.

sorry for the multiple posts at once.

#6

The beauty of 5/3/1 is it’s ok to change things up as long as you do the lifts correctly. The accessory work is just that, it’s accessory. People get too hung up on it. More is not necessarily better

Bench 5/3/1 FSL
OHP 80% 5 x 5
Lat work, rows, pull-ups, lat pulldowns

Squat 5/3/1 FSL
Deadlift 80% 5 x 5
Ab workouts

OHP 5/3/1 FSL
Bench 80% 5 x 5
Lat work

Deadlift 5/3/1 FSL
Squats 5 x 5 @ 80
Ab work

You are hitting everything twice a week. Eat and adjust your training maxes. I don’t think squatting and deadlifting twice a week is too much. Just don’t do AMRAP for deadlifts.

Or do all the squats one day and all the deadlifts one day. do the 5 x 5 after your 5/3/1 which is similar to what I wrote above.

#7

yes I know I just also like to see SOME progression in the assistance but im not stressing. thanks that’s what I needed just some confirmation. ill just run the main 531 lifts with the FSL and BBB 5x5 and just do the assistance I have up there but not heavy (like I have been doing) I don’t kill myself on the assistance too much. on my rows and lats I do just because I want to keep my back equal to my chest.

#8

oh one more thing for the FSL you put is that an AMRAP on all days except deads, or is that like 3-4 sets of 5-8 reps of the first working set?

there is a couple FSL variants im aware of

#9

I like doing 5 sets of 5-8 reps of the first set vs. AMRAP. You can lose form quick doing AMRAP where as you can practice your strength more doing the 5 sets.

#10

ahh I see I get it. thanks a ton man. ill do that instead of AMRAP for all the days

#11

“but I use the 5/3/1 calc on black iron beast and that’s how it has it set up as far as the 5/3/1 sets and BBB assistance”

And there is the whole problem. Do the program as designed - if what you wrote is what someone told you to do, they are wrong. Where do you find out what to do? The book. The one I wrote.

#12

Never do BBB and FSL together.

Do the program as written and stop thinking you need more volume.

You would profit from getting to know the 5/3 concept though.

#13

[quote]JFG wrote:
Never do BBB and FSL together.

[/quote]

Oh. Damn, No wonder I get so tired!

#14

well I have the books and most of the stuff I have in my routine is from the books the calc just helps me do the math and keep it simple for me.

im more confused then anything right now. what I had in mind was just doing the 5/3/1 sets then doing the alternate BBB sets for 5x5@80% and then assistance…

#15

I had to write this post twice because my compouter wigged out but sorry if this posts twice.
okay since Im confused a bit ill just write it out what I had in mind then if you guys can maybe copy paste it in your reply and change what you think should be added. also my bench never progressed doing the 5x10@50% so I went I searching online and through the books for options to add to the bench day to get some more heavy volume after the 5/3/1 sets and found the 5x5@80% so I did that on OHP day and loved it. so the calc im using I haven’t just went by that I use the stuff from the book the calc just helps me do the quick math and I just plug the numbers in. here is what I had in mine feel free to change it in your reply

OHP 5/3/1
BBB bench 5x5@80
3x8 lat pulls
3x8 close grip cable rows
3x8 incline bench press (or do tricep isolation like tri pressdown and skullcrushers)
3x8 shrugs

DEAD 5/3/1
BBB squats 5x5@80
(maybe some quad work like suggested?)
ab n calf work

BENCH 5/3/1
BBB OHP 5x5@80 (or like suggested do close grip bench or floor presses but how many sets x reps)
3x8 BB rows (or due to the squatting and deadlifting twice a week do DB rows)
3x8 weighted dips
3x8 face pulls

SQUAT 5/3/1
BBB deadlifts 5x5@80%
3x8 ham curls
ab and calf work

I also do some RC work sometimes after upper body days to keep my shoulders good.

just copy paste and change anything you want and I will most likely do it.
im sorry for the redundant posts but with all the replies im lost so I just wrote it out so I can read the changes in that format it will be a lot easier for me. I tried putting as many of your suggestions as I could up there. just let me know.

#16

The best advice I can give you is this: information is not a skill.

It’s hard for the ego to take but you’re probably not in the best position to decide how to get yourself unstuck. Your best solution isn’t to find someone to validate your thinking, it’s to listen.

The book is completely unambiguous as to how to do BBB. There’s a table with all the exercises. Do that.

#17

that may be true. im not searching for any confirmation though. I posted my ideas and told everyone to change as needed. im asking how to set it all up. “oh you need more tri work and less volume on upper days” well write it out then so I can understand.
some people say putting 5x5 for BBB is changing the program, some advocate for it. some guys just chip in their two cents and don’t bother to explain. so I laid it out nice and formatted so someone can come a long and change and correct the format I posted so I can literally take what they fixed and start it next cycle.

copy. paste in new reply. change and post. I look at it. write it down and do it. I wish I had my 5/3/1 books here with me…

#18

Get rid of the incline bench, shrugs, dips, “additional quad work” and then give it a try for a cycle. The BBB 5x5 is going to be a lot more fatiguing than the 5x10 you may be used to. If you really feel you need specific excercises to address weak points after that, add them in slowly and methodically. It’s better to not do enough when switching things around than to do too much. In my experience getting stuck has more to do with doing too much than too little. With the 5x5 BBB make sure to get sufficiently warmed up (when you switch from one lift to the next) as it’s a much higher load than usual 5x10 BBB.

#19

[quote]thebarron wrote:
that may be true. im not searching for any confirmation though. I posted my ideas and told everyone to change as needed. im asking how to set it all up. “oh you need more tri work and less volume on upper days” well write it out then so I can understand.
some people say putting 5x5 for BBB is changing the program, some advocate for it. some guys just chip in their two cents and don’t bother to explain. so I laid it out nice and formatted so someone can come a long and change and correct the format I posted so I can literally take what they fixed and start it next cycle.

copy. paste in new reply. change and post. I look at it. write it down and do it. I wish I had my 5/3/1 books here with me…

[/quote]

5/3/1 5x5 is on page 21 of Beyond. Just do that.

Assistance work has not changed since the first book. Choose one (for the first two cycles or one if you are doing the 6 weeks progression) per session from the Wendler 6 (look it up). So, that is 4 assistance per week.

If you have enough energy to do 3 or 4 assistance work per work out, then your TM is way to low. After your 5x5, you want to go home. You just happen to stay for the assistance round, because you want to be better then your former self.

Don’t forget conditioning. Hills are meant to ben run up.

And again, look up the 5/3 progression.

5/3/1 BBB 5x10 for two cycles
5/3/1 FSL for two cycles
5/3/1 go nuts for one cycle.
Go back three
Rinse and repeat.

Now stop whining and go lift.

#20

[quote]thebarron wrote:
copy. paste in new reply. change and post. I look at it. write it down and do it. I wish I had my 5/3/1 books here with me…
[/quote]

  1. Mobility
  2. Jumps
  3. Main lifts (5/3/1 or 5 pros)
  4. 5x10 for 2 cycles, 5x5@80% for 2 cycles
  5. lat or core work

There is more than enough work there when you add in conditioning.

You should drop your TM 10/20lbs. If that upsets you, lift the 5x10 intensity to 60% but you are not taking a step back, smashing your old records at The lower TM is plenty of progressive overload.