T Nation

Help with 3rd Cycle After 10 Years and Gyno Surgery

Alright, a little about me

  • 30s
    -lifting for 15 years
    -205lb at 5’11
    -15-18% body fat. (just finished bulking phase not too long ago)

Yes, i am carrying a little bit of weight in the stomach area but everything else is pretty good. My training is down pat and i’m starting to dial in my diet hard.

Yeah i totalllllly fucked my shit up yearrrssss ago when my dumbass did an improper cycle without having AI on hand. (fuck it was brutal) but that surgery was done and man what a relief.

I want to finally do my junior cycle and this time do it fucking right. Do i neeeeed to do one? nah, i think i’m in great shape, BUT i want that next level to finally start competing. It’s something i’ve always wanted to do once in my life.

I"m deathly afraid of gyno, i convert easily so any help or guidance would be nice. My blood work came back and i’m healthy as can be (according to the doc)

So, i was thinking

1-12 weeks @ 500mg Test E
9-13 weeks @ 50mg/ED Winstrol
PCT 14- (for however long i may need) weeks @ ??? Clomid (it’s what i can get)

I have AI on hand now. Not messing that up again. SO my questions

  1. Is this a good combo for my 3rd cycle for someone that is super sensitive? (who knows if i am truly super sensitive or if i was careless before i can’t remember)

  2. Winstrol i know isn’t popular around here (from the searches i did) but i remember reacting well to it when i used it before. However, joint pain is a concern, and i do have some joint pains already. Is there anything else i can go with that will not convert at all that is a better option?

  3. Should i pop the AI after every injection? A small dose maybe? I’m debating this.

  4. How long should my PCT be on this? standard protocol of 4 weeks after 2 weeks after last test e pin?

Thoughts?

I have started 0.25mg arimidex eod with the first injection

Didn’t have side effects of low e2 until I increased it to everyday 0.25mg

With 0.25mg everyday I have felt increased joint Cracking sound and no other side effects but reduced frequency after that

So I would suggest start with 0.25mg eod ai and see how you are doing

Also there are many people against ai around here but you obviously have gyno past don’t take risk

Some people have told me since i removed the gland it would be much harder for me to get gyno, especially doing it right this time.

I don’t know if i want to hop on AI immediately, maybe i should wait and see how i feel? i also have clomid on hand, is it good to take mid cycle ?

Using clomid or Nolvadex in cycle not suggested to prevent gyno. It is only suggested if gyno already appeared. It is up to you but this is my experience in my first cycle so far

This is not correct. Nolva during cycle IS suggested to prevent gyno. Nolvadex is a SERM this means it blocks the effect estrogen has on your body. It does not lower estrogen just blocks it.

Letro and ralox are I believe the drugs suggested to reduce gyno once it has already appeared

same with clomid, correct?

is it a good idea to take a little bit of AI after your dose and not daily for the same thing?

I have read so many threads and every one of them suggest ai not Nolvadex to prevent gyno and other high E2 bad side effects

Correct altho nolva is the superior of the two and clomid can also bring some nasty side effects.

AI and serm are two different drugs. An AI will eliminate estrogen so yes it can be used to prevent gyno I’m not saying that an AI can’t be used but that wasn’t his question.

His question was wether nolva or clomid can be used to prevent gyno. And they can some actually reccomend nolva over an AI due to the fact you don’t risk crashing your estrogen or messing with the E2/test ratio. With nolva you can let your E2 roam free and don’t have to worry about gyno. Further more if you are already gyno prone I wouldn’t reccomend using an AI to try and fight it I think a SERM would be best due to it eliminating the chance of gyno even occurring.

When it comes to “bad side effects” of elevated E2 like water retention etc nolva won’t mitigate these things. I also don’t think people should use AIs due to water retention etc. If your body fat is withing range and your diet is proper you shouldn’t be having issues with stuff like that. And if it’s not I don’t think the person should be using gear

I have been told that 500mg of test i wouldn’t need to run clomid/nolva during cycle to prevent gyno but i’m still worried. I have also read that running nolva or clomid mid cycle can scale back gains? Is that true? Still, if i should run it mid cycle how would you do it?

What do you think is body fat range to prevent water retention? I’ve read all types of different ranges - some people say you need to be around 10% before even running PEDS, others say under 15% and some even say as long as you are below 20% you should be good.

I can only give you my opinion.

Its not just body fat alone. If you are under 20% and your diet is on point and you keep your sodium low. Then on 500mgs a week you shouldn’t be holding more then 10lbs tops of water really more like 5-7 tops. And unless you are one of the few people who are legitimately gyno prone this doesn’t mean your nips get sensitive and you think your getting gyno. Then you shouldn’t need an AI. Further more if you really are gyno prone then I’d recommend what the doctor on this forum recommends and that’s 20mg nolva/day.

As I said my opinion is 20% tops I really reccomend more around 15% and you can’t figure this out by the bullshit bathroom scale test. They can be accurate sometimes but there has been studies that show they are sometimes as far as ±10%. I’d reccomend scheduling an appointment for a bod pod test or meet with someone experienced in the caliper method.

yeah i’m really conflicted here.

i see some people say you absolutely need an AI and should run a low dose of this if you will be doing 500mg of test. others say stick with nolva and even more people say do nothing until PCT on this cycle.

if i end up with permanent breast tissue again i’m gonna flip!

you should also consider this possibility

since in the past you have developed gyno, your e2 may be rising to pretty high levels

so it may not be only due to your gyno sensitivity