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Help w/ My WS4SB Routine

I have been putting this together for the past hour, please let me know what u guys think. For DE tuesday i put front squats instead is that ok??

MONDAY - Max-Effort Upper Body
TUESDAY - Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
WEDNESDAY - Off
THURSDAY - Repetition Upper Body
FRIDAY - Max-Effort Lower Body
SATURDAY - Off
SUNDAY - Off

Monday
A BB Bench Press (work up to max set of 3-5, 3-4mins rest)
B Incline DB Bench Press 2 x Max Reps (15-20RM, 3-4 min rest)
C1 BB Rows 3 x 8-12
C2 Facepulls 3 x 8-12
D Machine Shrugs 3 x 8-15
E BB Curls 3 x 8-15

Tuesday
A Front Squats 3 x 10-12
B Unilateral Leg Press 3 x 8-10
C Romanian Deadlift 3 x 8-12
D Cable Crunches 4 x 10-15

Thursday
A Incline DB Bench 3 x max reps (15-20RM)
B1 Lat Pulldowns 3 x 8-12
B2 Facepulls 3 x 8-12
C DB Military Press 4 x 8-12
D1 DB Shrugs 3 x 8-10
D2 DB Curls 3 x 8-10
E Thick bar or heavy DB holds (2-3 sets of max time)

Friday
A Squats (work up to max set of 3-5 reps)
B Reverse Lunges 3 x 6-12
C Reverse hyperextensions 3 x 8-12
D high-rep abdominal circuit 3 x 10-20 reps (rest 1-2 min between circuits)

front squats 3x10-12 isnt a dynamic movement

^ that’s what i was gonna suggest.

i incorporated broad jumps for the past while and really felt like i was making progress with them. with some patellar tendinitis concerns, the broad jumps didn’t cause me much discomfort.

also, bulgarian split squats with enhanced ROM are awesome, i’d want to throw those in instead of single leg presses if possible

Before ill even suggest anything else I would like to know your strength level age,height,weight,training experiance.

My Age: 24 years old
Height: 174cm
Weight: 187lbs
Training Experience: been training for 2 years on and off.

Im fairly weak, so my first goal would be to get stronger and some fat loss later on would not be a bad thing too.

I had a look at http://startingstrength.wikia.com, and came up with a with a better ws4sb routine for me.

Monday: Upper Body Max Effort
A. Bench Press 3-5RM
B. Barbell Row 4 X 5-10
C. Incline DB Press 3-4 X 6-10
D. DB Rear Delt Fly 2-3 X 12-15
E. Weighted Abdominal work 3-4 X 8-15

Wednesday: Lower Body Max Effort
A. Deadlifts 3-5RM
B. Front Squat 3 X 8
C. Weighted Hypers 3 X 8
D. Leg Curls 2 X 8

Friday: Upper Body Repetition Effort
A. DB Bench 4xMax(15-20RM)
B. Pullups 4 X 8-12 (keep rep range, or use pulldowns)
C. DB Shoulder Press 3 X 10-15
D. Rope pressdowns 3-4 X 5-10
E. BB Curls 3 X 8-10
F. Abdominal circuit training (Pick a bunch of different ab exercises)

Monday: Lower Body Max Effort
A. Medium-Wide Stance Squats 3-5RM
B. Romanian Deadlift 3 X 8
C. Weighted Hypers 3 X 8
D. Leg Curls 2 X 8

how does this look? I’m not sure about the leg curls on both my Lower Body Max Days, should i change one to stiff leg deadlifts?

FFS! Have you even read WS4SB? Neither “routine” you posted is WS4SB. All three versions are available for free at defrancostraining.com. Go read them. Do one. My favorite is III.

LA

i got the second one from here >> http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Westside_for_Skinny_Bastards

its just a mod version, what is so wrong with it???

You need some unilateral work on leg days. Ditch the leg curls and incorporate split squats or various lunges. Also, it would be beneficial to do heavy ab work on leg days rather than blow your core two days prior to heavy squatting.

Along with what the others have said, I’d ditch the high rep [15-20] stuff. It could be just me, but I’ve found it to do absolutely nothing but take up time. If you’re hell bent on doing reps I’d keep it in the 10-12 range and always leave a rep or two in the hole.

I have switched Leg curls with BB Lunges and DB Walking Lunges. For the max reps I will do what’s suggested 4x10-12. I have removed Mondays Ab work to Wednesday’s Lower Body Max Effort and instead added 2 sets of machine rear delt work. Below is what i have at the moment, It looks quiet good to me now, Thanks to everyone for the help.

Monday: Upper Body Max Effort
A. Bench Press 3-5RM
B. Barbell Row 4 X 5-10
C. Incline DB Press 4 X 6-10
D. DB Rear Delt Fly 2 X 12-15
E. Machine Rear Delt 2x12-15

Wednesday: Lower Body Max Effort
A. Deadlifts 3-5RM
B. Front Squat 3 X 8
C. Weighted Hypers 3 X 8
D. BB Lunges 2 X 8
E. Heavy Abdominal Work 3x12-15

Friday: Upper Body Repetition Effort
A. DB Bench 4xMax(15-20RM)
B. Pullups 4 X 8-12 (keep rep range, or use pulldowns)
C. DB Shoulder Press 3 X 10-15
D. Rope pressdowns 3-4 X 5-10
E. BB Curls 3 X 8-10
F. Abdominal circuit training (Pick a bunch of different ab exercises)

Monday: Lower Body Max Effort
A. Medium-Wide Stance Squats 3-5RM
B. Romanian Deadlift 3 X 8
C. Weighted Hypers 3 X 8
D. BB Lunges 2 X 8
E. Heavy Abdominal Work 3x12-15

any other suggestions are welcome thanks.

[quote]Shan784 wrote:
i got the second one from here >> http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Westside_for_Skinny_Bastards

its just a mod version, what is so wrong with it???[/quote]

I only pointed out that it’s not WS4SB… in your first version, you took an hour to remove the DE lower day to add front squats. In your second version, you replaced DE lower with another ME lower day (deadlifts). I hope that didn’t take you an hour too… For whatever reason you seem to want to get rid of the DE jumping in WS4SB.

Reading your posts in this and another thread, it seems to me that you could benefit from doing something as written (WS4SB III or 5/3/1 are great choices) for at least 6 months.

Nobody said never tweak things to meet your needs… but you asked for advice. Well you got plenty of advice. What will you do with it?

LA

If you have only been lifting for two years then I would dump most of the stuff you have and focus on pushups, pullups/chinups, rows, deadlifts, squats. I’m all for variety but the basics work in the beginning.
Start simple, add stuff, and see where that takes you.

ws4sb incorporates dynamic lower body movements (jumping especially) because he’s found his inexperienced lifters make better athletic progress with only one ME lower body lift per week, rather than two. he also believes that athletes should incorporate unilateral movements in their lower body work.

do the program to the letter, and you will make gains. you get enough heavy lifts in there, and the assistance work generally provides a good balance. i used to use it as more of a template, and made good gains, but i did about 8 weeks of ws4sb exactly as written this spring and made great gains.

The reason i didn’t want to do any jumping is I’m no athlete. I do think that I would benefit from it later in my training career. Thats why i thought 2x ME lower body would be better, I think i read somewhere even Defranco suggests this for bodybuilders, as his ws4sb is for atheltes who play soccer,football etc.

That been said doesn’t mean a bodybuilder couldn’t follow it to the T (but would he get the same results??? as per say 2X ME lower body). I’m starting this today, hope its really not a bad as some of you guys really make it to be, i don’t see why it would be as i will be going every second day, there is heaps of time for recovery there.

[quote]Shan784 wrote:
I have switched Leg curls with BB Lunges and DB Walking Lunges. For the max reps I will do what’s suggested 4x10-12. I have removed Mondays Ab work to Wednesday’s Lower Body Max Effort and instead added 2 sets of machine rear delt work. Below is what i have at the moment, It looks quiet good to me now, Thanks to everyone for the help.

Monday: Upper Body Max Effort
A. Bench Press 3-5RM
B. Barbell Row 4 X 5-10
C. Incline DB Press 4 X 6-10
D. DB Rear Delt Fly 2 X 12-15
E. Machine Rear Delt 2x12-15

Wednesday: Lower Body Max Effort
A. Deadlifts 3-5RM
B. Front Squat 3 X 8
C. Weighted Hypers 3 X 8
D. BB Lunges 2 X 8
E. Heavy Abdominal Work 3x12-15

Friday: Upper Body Repetition Effort
A. DB Bench 4xMax(15-20RM)
B. Pullups 4 X 8-12 (keep rep range, or use pulldowns)
C. DB Shoulder Press 3 X 10-15
D. Rope pressdowns 3-4 X 5-10
E. BB Curls 3 X 8-10
F. Abdominal circuit training (Pick a bunch of different ab exercises)

Monday: Lower Body Max Effort
A. Medium-Wide Stance Squats 3-5RM
B. Romanian Deadlift 3 X 8
C. Weighted Hypers 3 X 8
D. BB Lunges 2 X 8
E. Heavy Abdominal Work 3x12-15

any other suggestions are welcome thanks.
[/quote]

Why do you have 2 rear delt moves on Monday, and why do you start the following Monday with a leg day? Are you doing a revolving split?

[quote]Shan784 wrote:
The reason i didn’t want to do any jumping is I’m no athlete. I do think that I would benefit from it later in my training career. Thats why i thought 2x ME lower body would be better, I think i read somewhere even Defranco suggests this for bodybuilders, as his ws4sb is for atheltes who play soccer,football etc.

That been said doesn’t mean a bodybuilder couldn’t follow it to the T (but would he get the same results??? as per say 2X ME lower body). I’m starting this today, hope its really not a bad as some of you guys really make it to be, i don’t see why it would be as i will be going every second day, there is heaps of time for recovery there.

Shan the program is designed for athletes and people who want to train like athletes. Thats the point of the program. If thats not what you want dont do it. But I would imagine as you mentioned strength and losing some body fat as goals that you do in fact want to look like an athlete. I would suggest using a template as in WS4SB 2 with a strongman day instead of a dynamic lower body day. The two max effort lower body days per week is too much. You mentioned the starting strength template. If you are less experienced use that instead of WS4SB. They are two great programs but aimed at a different level of lifter. Evaluate where you are and pick one.

my advice would be to just use the temple defranco designed, rotate the exercises and just do what he suggests. work for lots of guys

[quote]skinnyboy wrote:
Shan784 wrote:
The reason i didn’t want to do any jumping is I’m no athlete. I do think that I would benefit from it later in my training career. Thats why i thought 2x ME lower body would be better, I think i read somewhere even Defranco suggests this for bodybuilders, as his ws4sb is for atheltes who play soccer,football etc.

That been said doesn’t mean a bodybuilder couldn’t follow it to the T (but would he get the same results??? as per say 2X ME lower body). I’m starting this today, hope its really not a bad as some of you guys really make it to be, i don’t see why it would be as i will be going every second day, there is heaps of time for recovery there.

Shan the program is designed for athletes and people who want to train like athletes. Thats the point of the program. If thats not what you want dont do it. But I would imagine as you mentioned strength and losing some body fat as goals that you do in fact want to look like an athlete. I would suggest using a template as in WS4SB 2 with a strongman day instead of a dynamic lower body day. The two max effort lower body days per week is too much. You mentioned the starting strength template. If you are less experienced use that instead of WS4SB. They are two great programs but aimed at a different level of lifter. Evaluate where you are and pick one.[/quote]

Can you please tell me more about Strongman day? and just to clarify there is not 2 lower body days a week, instead the second lower body day is done the following Monday after the Repetition Friday for upper body. So its a 4day split on a 3day cycle. Here is a thread explaining what im doing in great detail > http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=920894

[quote]
Why do you have 2 rear delt moves on Monday, and why do you start the following Monday with a leg day? Are you doing a revolving split?[/quote]

I might drop the machine rear delts next week and just do a extra set of the other, especially since the machine is broken at my gym. I like to always finish of my rear delts with machine (feel it a lot more) Reason for the following Monday’s leg day is It’s a 4 day split instead of 3. Below is how it’s cycles

First Cycle:
Monday, Day 1: Max Effort Upper Body
Wednesday, Day 3: Max Effort Deadlifts
Friday, Day 5:Repetition Effort Upper Body
Monday, Day 8: Max Effort Squats

Second Cycle:
Wednesday, Day 10: Max Effort Upper Body
Friday, Day 12: Max Effort Deadlifts
Monday, Day 15: Repetition Effort Upper Body
Wednesday, Day 17: Max Effort Squats

Third Cycle:
Friday, Day 19: Max Effort Upper Body
Monday, Day 22: Max Effort Deadlifts
Wednesday, Day 24: Repetition Effort Upper Body
Friday, Day 26: Max Effort Squats

Fourth Cycle:
Monday, Day 29: Max Effort Upper Body
Wednesday, Day 31: Max Effort Deadlifts
Friday, Day 33: Repetition Effort Upper Body
Monday, Day 36: Max Effort Squats

[quote]Shan784 wrote:

[quote]
Why do you have 2 rear delt moves on Monday, and why do you start the following Monday with a leg day? Are you doing a revolving split?[/quote]

I might drop the machine rear delts next week and just do a extra set of the other, especially since the machine is broken at my gym. I like to always finish of my rear delts with machine (feel it a lot more) Reason for the following Monday’s leg day is It’s a 4 day split instead of 3. Below is how it’s cycles

First Cycle:
Monday, Day 1: Max Effort Upper Body
Wednesday, Day 3: Max Effort Deadlifts
Friday, Day 5:Repetition Effort Upper Body
Monday, Day 8: Max Effort Squats

Second Cycle:
Wednesday, Day 10: Max Effort Upper Body
Friday, Day 12: Max Effort Deadlifts
Monday, Day 15: Repetition Effort Upper Body
Wednesday, Day 17: Max Effort Squats

Third Cycle:
Friday, Day 19: Max Effort Upper Body
Monday, Day 22: Max Effort Deadlifts
Wednesday, Day 24: Repetition Effort Upper Body
Friday, Day 26: Max Effort Squats

Fourth Cycle:
Monday, Day 29: Max Effort Upper Body
Wednesday, Day 31: Max Effort Deadlifts
Friday, Day 33: Repetition Effort Upper Body
Monday, Day 36: Max Effort Squats [/quote]

Why are you doing that? Why not go 4 days a week, like M-T-Th-F, or M-W–Th-St? Not saying that’d be better, just legitimately curious as to why you’re going 3 instead of 4 days a week.