T Nation

Help w/ my First Cycle

23 years old
6 foot
170 currently(have been up near 200lb when bulking), lean and pretty cut
know about proper nutrition, will start eating more on cycle

Alright, I think this would give me what I’m looking for, wanna get about 15-20lbs bigger, hopefully the armidex well help my gains be relatively lean. Been researching quite a bit, while saving up the money for the cycle.
I’m prone to acne, gyno, and thinning hair so I’ve including some ancillaries to help all those…

Weeks 1-10:
*500mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar (proscar) per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day (2 tabs)

Week 11:
*300mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 12:
*200mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 13:
*1.25mg of finasteride (proscar) per day
*.25mg of Arimidex every other day
*100mg of clomid every day

Week 14:
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
*50mg of clomid every day
Nizoral shampoo for extra hairloss prevention
Gonna order an acne regimen also, 2 showers/day, bath in epson salt etc…

Could someone please help???
Hope this isnt against the rules!

What’s the purpose of the test in weeks 11 and 12 ? If you don’t want to do the test stasis-taper, then just cut the test off at 10 weeks and go straight into PCT. If you are going to do the stasis-taper, then do it as written in the stickied thread. The kind of taper you have written down does nothing for you.

And how do you already know you’re prone to gyno if this is your first cycle?

Ditto on Aragorn’s post. Your proposed taper is way off base.

Plus, you won’t find a “research chemical” company that touts its products as human grade. Everything is just that: for research purposes only. And it’s oral doses, not injected.

at 6’ 170 lbs, anyone else think he is no where near his natural potential? and at a pretty young age, his natty test should still be fine… i see only cons with his proposed cycle

Why Clomid during the cycle?

[quote]Dylanj wrote:
at 6’ 170 lbs, anyone else think he is no where near his natural potential? and at a pretty young age, his natty test should still be fine… i see only cons with his proposed cycle[/quote]

I might be way off here, but isn’t the OP a fighter going to be in Thailand for intense training this year? If that’s the case, then seems to me he’s going less for BB mass and more for increased recovery/aggression/ with some muscle

Of course, I might be way wrong. In which case, yes, he’s a bit light to worry about this.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I might be way off here, but isn’t the OP a fighter going to be in Thailand for intense training this year? [/quote]

I believe that was Avarice.

I heard that the clomid would keep your nuts working through the cycle. Sorry for asking about a source, I think im guna try an international one.
Why is the test taper bad?? combining it with a PCT would just make the cycle safer correct???

Test taper is good. What you have laid out is bad. Take another look at the stasis/taper sticky, and repost your corrected cycle.

Take a look at a lot of things including many many meals and then re think if you are ready to do this. As at your current height and weight you may blow away in the wind.

[quote]ActionYakson wrote:
I heard that the clomid would keep your nuts working through the cycle. Sorry for asking about a source, I think im guna try an international one.
Why is the test taper bad?? combining it with a PCT would just make the cycle safer correct???[/quote]

Clomid will not do that.

That reply, among other statements, makes it sound like you are not fully prepared for this.

okay, I agree, I’m going to wait a bit and do more research while training very hard and eating right.

But, I was wondering, what do you guys think is better for PCT? Nolva or clomid or test taper.

I’ve read sumwhere that nolva is better than clomid. Also it seems that a nolva PCT would be easier than a test taper for a first cycle?
Any opinions?

I am currently running the anabolic diet (no carbs weekdays, carb loading on the weekends). If I do decide to get some gear in a month or so, should I change my diet to a high carb one??? It would probably be bad not to cause eating all that fat on top of the gear could fuck with my cholesterol.

Anyway, Im going to continue reading up on things before i place my order. Thanks fellas!

Weeks 1-10:
*400mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar (proscar) per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day (2 tabs)

Week 11:
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 12:
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 13:
*1.25mg of finasteride (proscar) per day
*.25mg of Arimidex every other day
*40mg of nolva 2x/day

Week 14:
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
*20mg of nolva 2x/day

Think this would be ok for someone with my pre-existing conditions???

I dropped the test down slightly, got rid of the clomid during the cycle. Will have extra nolva if conditions of gyno start to pop up.
Any thoughts???

[quote]ActionYakson wrote:
But, I was wondering, what do you guys think is better for PCT? Nolva or clomid or test taper.

I’ve read sumwhere that nolva is better than clomid. Also it seems that a nolva PCT would be easier than a test taper for a first cycle?
Any opinions?[/quote]

I’ve done two cycles, both times did the stasis/taper. It allows for a very smooth transition back to homeostasis. From those that have done both, I’ve heard they wished they new about the stasis/taper before trying the nolva PCT. The stasis/taper helps to avoid the crash associated with coming off the exogenous test. Your body has a lot longer to recover, and you’re still actually using the nolva during the taper portion, anyway. Yes, the stasis/taper takes longer, but it seems to work better by all accounts.

A high carb diet while on can result in a very bloated experience. It’s good to cycle carbs while on also.

read the newbie cycle planning guide. my advice is in there.

i’m also wondering about the moon face/water retention.
wuld adding the clomid and adex like i originally had help cut that back?
wuldnt keep that original test taper, just the clomid and adex while on…

to get this straight, for PCT, if I decided to do the test taper/stasis
for 6 weeks following the cycle I would just do: week 1-6
mg/ week: 80mg / 60mg/ 50mg/ 40mg/ 30 mg/ 20mg.

I expect that I should also taper of the arimidex also.
But, should i still include the nolva if I’m worried about gyno issues???

Also how many times could you use the same needle if following the proper injection/storage techniques, and only using it on yourself of course.
Would I have to use a new needle for each injection, even the ones of the test taper???

[quote]23 years old
6 foot
170 currently(have been up near 200lb when bulking), lean and pretty cut
know about proper nutrition, will start eating more on cycle

Alright, I think this would give me what I’m looking for, wanna get about 15-20lbs bigger, hopefully the armidex well help my gains be relatively lean. Been researching quite a bit, while saving up the money for the cycle.
I’m prone to acne, gyno, and thinning hair so I’ve including some ancillaries to help all those… [/quote]

You should start �??bulking�?? again now, while you do some research, and try to get back up to at least close to your natural �??peak�?? that you�??ve obtained before �?? with muscle memory it should be easy and would be a waste to use your cycle for those gains.
Being as lean as appear and say you are, how do you know you are sensitive to Gyno?

[quote]okay, I agree, I’m going to wait a bit and do more research while training very hard and eating right.

But, I was wondering, what do you guys think is better for PCT? Nolva or clomid or test taper.

I’ve read sumwhere that nolva is better than clomid. Also it seems that a nolva PCT would be easier than a test taper for a first cycle?
Any opinions? [/quote]

The better PCT would depend on the immediate goals after the cycle, if you are planning on getting back on a cycle then a convential SERM PCT would be best, otherwise the Taper is superior in ever way.

[Quote]
�?�ok for someone with my pre-existing conditions???
Any thoughts??? [/quote]

Pre-Existing Conditions?
Do you have gyno, thinning hair, acne?
If you already have thinning hair, honestly I would give up the fight or change your plans a bit. Really, if hairloss is such a concern to you I would consider adding Deca and removing the Proscar �?? it will lower DHT, which will cause the need for a bit more AI and a bit less gains.

Deca will be somewhat protective. You would then be looking a a bit more complicated cycle though in regards to length and compounds so maybe you should just ignore me. With the Proscar though I would up the Arimidex to .5mg/day especially if you are gyno sensitive.

With running the Arimidex there would be no need to run the Nolvadex at such a high dose �?? 80mg/day!!! Whoa, settle down buddy. You aren�??t going to need it for estrogen control as the AI will be controlling it, and dosing above 20mg/day is sensless for endogenous testosterone production according to studies �?? though I know at least one guy who says he gets a sex drive boost from the higher doses, many experience the opposite �??

regardless, you crazy high dosing is during the period when exogenous testosterone is still much higher than normal endogenous levels, which would make any recovery impossible during that time anyway �?? so no point as far as estrogen + no point as far as recovery = no point in such doses.

[quote]i’m also wondering about the moon face/water retention.
wuld adding the clomid and adex like i originally had help cut that back?
wuldnt keep that original test taper, just the clomid and adex while on… [/quote]

The Arimidex will help with that, diet is going to be an important factor as well. Clomid is not going to help considerably.

[quote]to get this straight, for PCT, if I decided to do the test taper/stasis
for 6 weeks following the cycle I would just do: week 1-6
mg/ week: 80mg / 60mg/ 50mg/ 40mg/ 30 mg/ 20mg.

I expect that I should also taper of the arimidex also.
But, should i still include the nolva if I’m worried about gyno issues??? [/quote]

I would run it more like 100, 100, 80, 60, 40, 20, but read the sticky �?? the guys here have turned it into a science, I would follow the protocol.
Taper off the Arimidex as the sticky probably says, my thoughts would be over 3-4 weeks. No point in running the Nolvadex, it will just give a artificial boost and negative impact on overall health during a time when we are wanting our bodies to naturally reach homeostasis and overall health.

[quote]Also how many times could you use the same needle if following the proper injection/storage techniques, and only using it on yourself of course.
Would I have to use a new needle for each injection, even the ones of the test taper??? [/quote]
Use each needle only once, it will dull considerably each time �?? I use one to draw and one to shoot. An exception may be during the taper with insulin needles, but I don�??t know. If so I would wipe the needle with alcohol each time �?? before and after, but I don�??t feel comfortable giving a recommendation for anything other than using a new needle each time.

Cool man thanks! lots of good info!
the reason I’ve got concerns about gyno is because during puberty I put on some pudge, and was never able to get rid of excess fat on my chest.
I am currently on a diet called the anabolic diet (no carbs on weekdays), where after being on it for a while you body is supposed to go into a metabolic shift and start to burn fat instead of carbs for energy. People on it for awhile have reported losing fat in hard to target areas (my tits) so that’s another plus.

It also increases the testosterone in your system which I have noticed!!! I’ve been more agressive at the gym and am lifting heavier now than ever! However when I first got on it I lost a lot of weight initially so that’s why my current weight is low at about 174 (measured today).

Also my tits appear to be shrinking very slowly but only time will tell about that. I may get the surgery in the future if it doesnt.

I’m thinking of doing the 400 mg/week test cycle while remaining on the diet or while carb cycling so that I will not take on so much water weight and and appear to be on gear. Hopefully this will just speed up the results of this diet and all the training I’ve been doing.

If I’m way off base let me know. But I’ve wanted to do a cycle for a long time and think that my life would benefit from it in many ways.

My hair is thin but my dad is 55 and not bald but has a big forehead and visible scalp on the crown. So I really don’t know if I have to worry so much about that just want to be safe. I’ve also had pretty bad acne when I was a teen and have some now but I think that if I order a serious regiment I can control it while on the cycle (clearpores).

I’ve made the decision to do this sometime over the winter. I want to be bigger and the gains I’m getting without gear almost arent worth all the effort I’m putting in, even though I do love the feeling of being sore, feeling the pump and flexing all the time.
Just having a hard time deciding what all I should use with the cycle. Leaning towards 400/week test e with armidex throughout. Then a taper for PCT.
Would the cycle be worth the gains or should I add to it?