BTW- You’re starting out, so you’re not going to be perfect with this, no one is. Just try to learn from others are saying here and rectify the situation
okay…forget what everyone has been throwing at your for a minute, okay? Clear your mind. Think about this logically, not from a bodybuilding standpoint (not that a bodybuilding standpoint isn’t logical, but for an average person) Asses your client…he is 250 lbs, and wants to get to 190? That’s 60 lbs. Have you asked him to write down everything he eats on an everyday basis for you? If you haven’t done this, then you have made a mistake. Because if he’s been eating 3,000 calories a day for example, and doing his spin class, and remained stagnate, then you know he must go lower to lose weight.
As human beings, calories in and calories out will forever work. Especially with someone so overweight. Figure out his caloric needs, and have him eat 6 meals a day, with a piece of fruit at every meal, vegetables, lean protein source, and a healthy fat source. And no more splits, 3 full bodyworkouts a week, with a squat, deadlift, bench, and pull/row of some sort. And never forget that it is calories in, calories out.
Did you do a certificated program?
[quote]AllTraps wrote:
It’s hard not to go off at you about all this. Brook and others have it very correct.
First off, fine you have “training” or “schooling” to be a trainer (just as all of us who started where you are) but unless that comes with a serious education on nutrition as well (dietician, clinical nutritionist) you have no legal basis and/or back up to be prescribing a diet, let alone supplements.
You can advise heathier choices as suggested - more greens, more low calorie fruits (berries, melons), clean whole food proteins, good fats and nothing out of a box, but specifics - don’t go near them. I’m 100% sure the guy knows what he’s been eating wrong. And how he can improve it.
I’ve found it’s better to have these types of clients journal their eating patterns and you can take 10 minutes at the end of the week to discuss one or two small tweaks to improve OVER TIME.
I hope to hell you have insurance my man! Because if this every backfires on you…can someone say E&O liability lawsuit?
With bigger people you can’t give them bodybuilding exercises and routines. The volume is too much, they’ll be too sore, their immune system will last about a week before they get super ill off any bug floating around and on and on and on.
The bigger a person is the more it comes down to simply moving and moving a lot (prescribe daily 45 minute walks outside), as well as fixing postural issues which hinder proper movmenet patterns.
I suggest you pick up a book: Movement That Matters by Paul Chek (http://shop1.mailordercentral.com/thechekinstitute/prodinfo.asp?number=MTM) It’s $20. It’ll hopefully change your mindset here.
Alwyn Cosgrove’s bodyweight training or beginner level Scott Abel MET training (www.scottabel.com) could be a better way of doing this.
Put it this way - the guy weighs 250lbs. How much more do you want him to squat? How much more compression do his joints really need?[/quote]
Very true, on everything you said. Now the only problem will be changing a program in which I have already prescribed. I am really liking the full body idea. And as far as nutrition goes, I will stop giving him direct advice on what he should be eating. In some ways, it sounds way too controlling anyways.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Stength4life wrote:
Mateus wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
As a trainer you shouldn’t be prescribing a specific diet. STOP. Seriously.
You can educate people on nutrition and help them develop a sample meal plan with their input giving them options on food choices that would help them reach their goals.
x2 - Are you a dietitian?
No. But he literally asked me to lay out a meal plan for him
then he should go to an RD. Most probably suck, but try to network and find one that will fit.
Or, again you could educate him on proper nutrition and empower him to make his own choices.
[/quote]
At our next session I’ll educate him. Thanks for the advise msn
[quote]dratner wrote:
okay…forget what everyone has been throwing at your for a minute, okay? Clear your mind. Think about this logically, not from a bodybuilding standpoint (not that a bodybuilding standpoint isn’t logical, but for an average person) Asses your client…he is 250 lbs, and wants to get to 190? That’s 60 lbs. Have you asked him to write down everything he eats on an everyday basis for you? If you haven’t done this, then you have made a mistake. Because if he’s been eating 3,000 calories a day for example, and doing his spin class, and remained stagnate, then you know he must go lower to lose weight.
As human beings, calories in and calories out will forever work. Especially with someone so overweight. Figure out his caloric needs, and have him eat 6 meals a day, with a piece of fruit at every meal, vegetables, lean protein source, and a healthy fat source. And no more splits, 3 full bodyworkouts a week, with a squat, deadlift, bench, and pull/row of some sort. And never forget that it is calories in, calories out. [/quote]
I have not asked him to write down everything he eats. I did however give him a copy of John Berardi’s 7 habits. I told him to follow them for the first month and then we can tweak his diet after he has followed them for a month but still, he wanted a written out diet. SHold I still impliment just following the 7 habits?
yeah, Berardi’s stuff is great, but this guy is clearly VERY overweight and probably doesn’t have bodybuilding goals. He doesn’t need to worry about muscle loss right now. he just needs to worry about getting the lard off. I think honestly, he should be getting somewhere around 2,600-2,800 calories a day. That is a lot of food for a normal person, he will do fine on that. But just make sure he eats lots of fruits and veggies.
Just write him out a plan of somewhere like 250 protein, 200 carbs (mostly fruits and post workout sugar) and 80-100 fat. Try and stay away from too many shakes at this point, you want to flood his body with nutrients from natural sources. Just the added vitamins from the fruits and veggies, 6x a day, will do wonders for his health and physique. you know? Obviously a good quality protein powder is great, but don’t make it the bulk of his meals. Let him get used to preparing food and the habit of eating clean whole food sources. Even something as simple as this
#1- 1 apple or banana, 1 scoop whey
#2- after spin class and training, 1 scoop whey, 2 servings powdered lemonade
#3- 8 oz. grilled chicken breast, 1 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil, 1 orange( and veggies, veggies, veggies)
#4- 2 slices ezekiel bread, 4 oz. sliced turkey breast, 1 orange (veggies)
#5- 6-8 oz. extra lean ground beef, 1 tablespoon olive oil, 1 large sweet potato, VEGGIES
#6- 3 eggs, veggies, 1 slice of full fat organic cheese, 1 tablespoon olive oil
#7- small apple and 2 tablespoons peanut butter
I mean, that’s roughly 2800 calories right there, 240-250 protein, 180-200 carbs, 90-100 fat. A very good day of eating.
Wow that looks so simple it just might work! Again though, I will use it as a “sample” meal plan and not directly advise it.
I give almost all my clients Berardi’s 7 Habits article and we delve into it further. Some people adopt to it slower, others take a long time, then others you’ll realize from the very 1st consult that even that won’t work (as far as them following it).
Strength4life,
As a former Fatbody 260, got down to 189, been there done that. I would recommend following the MET or whole body 3x week with cardio 3x week. More protein, more fiber and veggies. x2 on journaling everything he eats. start him at 2500-3000Kcals. too much lower his metabolism will crash despite his weight. Do everything GRADUALLY and ramp it up, you know?
First 2 weeks
1 exercise per bodypart 3 sets 15 for connective tissue, acclimation, form etc
Next 2 weeks
1 exercise per bp 3-4 sets 12 reps
weeks 4-6
2 exercises (different planes like pulldowns/rows for back etc) per bp 3 sets per 10-12 reps and reassess after that. that is 6 weeks on a whole body 3x a week split with 20-30min cario 3x a week. dont want to give him shin splints from running, have him walk an incline treadmill or bike.
There is just so much to write about to do it right. X 10 on reading and educating yourself.
Dratner’s post on diet is awesome. cut out the refined crap and don’t eat something just because you are supposed to eat veggies or starch or whatever. a meal can be protein and carbs only or protein and veg only too. remind him of portion sizes to help gauge too, protein deck of cards, carbs size of fist etc. dont eat 16oz of protein at one sitting for him either. Journal/log workout on one side of page, diet on other per day.
Good luck and congrats on your first client.
[quote]AllTraps wrote:
I hope to hell you have insurance my man! Because if this every backfires on you…can someone say E&O liability lawsuit?
[/quote]
Even if he does he will NOT be covered for the information he has provided. Give a client a NSAID or APAP (paracetamol for the UK’ers) for a headache and they can have your sued!
ESPECIALLY as it isnt even just a nutrition plan to a healthy adult, it could be argued in court that this client has a obesity issue which may indicate diabetic problems, cardiac issues… the lot. this puts him in ‘special populations’ and makes the matter worse.
The thing is - even the day i qualified, i would have known this - it is no excuse that he has just begun.
Brook
S4L, why did you ask for opinions on your plan after you had already prescribed it for the guy?. Horse? Barn door?
I like where dratner and others are going with the diet. Carbs and fast protein for brekkie, no fat in PWO shake. More real food. More vegetables.
Let us know where the guy is now, both with his current diet and his current training level.
I’m wondering about that too. Are you certified 4life?
Because no offense, but you shouldn’t have to ask these types of questions if you are.
[quote]b12sblue2002 wrote:
Strength4life,
As a former Fatbody 260, got down to 189, been there done that. I would recommend following the MET or whole body 3x week with cardio 3x week. More protein, more fiber and veggies. x2 on journaling everything he eats. start him at 2500-3000Kcals. too much lower his metabolism will crash despite his weight. Do everything GRADUALLY and ramp it up, you know?
First 2 weeks
1 exercise per bodypart 3 sets 15 for connective tissue, acclimation, form etc
Next 2 weeks
1 exercise per bp 3-4 sets 12 reps
weeks 4-6
2 exercises (different planes like pulldowns/rows for back etc) per bp 3 sets per 10-12 reps and reassess after that. that is 6 weeks on a whole body 3x a week split with 20-30min cario 3x a week. dont want to give him shin splints from running, have him walk an incline treadmill or bike.
There is just so much to write about to do it right. X 10 on reading and educating yourself.
Dratner’s post on diet is awesome. cut out the refined crap and don’t eat something just because you are supposed to eat veggies or starch or whatever. a meal can be protein and carbs only or protein and veg only too. remind him of portion sizes to help gauge too, protein deck of cards, carbs size of fist etc. dont eat 16oz of protein at one sitting for him either. Journal/log workout on one side of page, diet on other per day.
Good luck and congrats on your first client.[/quote]
Well I wasn’t planning on giving him ANY cardio, because of the spin class. I think it’s probably enough. He would definitely do better with a full body routine. After the first day of free weights on the 4 day split I wrote out, I realized that even with light weight he had very little balnce or mobility. Then I came home and read all of these posts and called him to tell him that a full body routine would be a much wiser path. His response was, “you’re the boss.”
[quote]EasyRhino wrote:
S4L, why did you ask for opinions on your plan after you had already prescribed it for the guy?. Horse? Barn door?
I like where dratner and others are going with the diet. Carbs and fast protein for brekkie, no fat in PWO shake. More real food. More vegetables.
Let us know where the guy is now, both with his current diet and his current training level.[/quote]
Training so far:
He has been doing the spin class for months and loves it. THe workout he showed me after consisted of an assortments of random machines. He did have somewhat of a plan. (Upper body Mon Weds Fri Lower Body: Tuesday and Thurday.)Obviously that needed some adjustment.
His diet
He didn’t eat before he worked out, but had a post workout meal that usually ended up being some kind of fast food place for breakfast. Then he had lunch which varied from healthy sandwiches to fast food again. His dinner was either BBQ, Spaghetti, Meatloaf, really anything his fiance makes for him. (Except for the BBQ that’s a man’s job lol.)
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
I’m wondering about that too. Are you certified 4life?
Because no offense, but you shouldn’t have to ask these types of questions if you are. [/quote]
I 've been interning for the head trainer at my gym while I study for the Nasm exam which I scheduled for next week. The man I am training is friends with the head trainer and he told him that I am technically not certified yet. So he is paying me 20 dollars per session. That money is going directly to me.
So no.
Be aware that no matter what a nice client you may have, if he wants to sue you for any reason - you will have ended your career before you started it.
I think you have made a mistake, and i think continuing to take money is a mistake.
You are NOT qualified… you should not be charging money from clients! Jesus man! If you want to ‘practice’ fine… and if they insist they pay - only accept it if they put it in writing it is a gift and NOT payment for services rendered.
You are walking on thin ice IME. It is a particularly risky business is the fitness game, when you are training someone who is not used to it - injuries are easily made - especially when the trainer is new and hasn’t learnt the many valuable - experience only - lessons that are learnt over time. Let alone the fact you are even giving advice that you not even training FOR, and wouldn’t be insured for when/if you pass your exam.
How old are you S4L? And also which certification (basic, standard, starter, plus, premier) is it you are working towards?
Didn’t realize you weren’t certified
Hence why I asked earlier. I knew he wasn’t right from 1st his post in this thread lol. No offence, but you got to start somewhere. Better to learn from mistakes sooner than later. I “can” technically train people but refuse to at the moment due to I’m doing my certification now.
[quote] Brook wrote:
So no.
Be aware that no matter what a nice client you may have, if he wants to sue you for any reason - you will have ended your career before you started it.
I think you have made a mistake, and i think continuing to take money is a mistake.
You are NOT qualified… you should not be charging money from clients! Jesus man! If you want to ‘practice’ fine… and if they insist they pay - only accept it if they put it in writing it is a gift and NOT payment for services rendered.
You are walking on thin ice IME. It is a particularly risky business is the fitness game, when you are training someone who is not used to it - injuries are easily made - especially when the trainer is new and hasn’t learnt the many valuable - experience only - lessons that are learnt over time. Let alone the fact you are even giving advice that you not even training FOR, and wouldn’t be insured for when/if you pass your exam.
How old are you S4L? And also which certification (basic, standard, starter, plus, premier) is it you are working towards?[/quote]
- I’m going for the standard.I wonder if it would still be wrong to train him even if I did it for free If I got him down to his goal weight and took before and after shots, I really feel like it could help my business.