T Nation

Help Setting Up a 6 Week Rapid Cut

Background:

Due to glandular fever + busted shoulder (now healed) + relationship problems + exams I have completely wrecked my body in terms of fitness/strength/body comp. I have actually been traning for a while although my stats do not reflect this.

I would like to drop some fat ASAP come the new year. I would like to get back into packing on lean mass ASAP and have been entertaining the idea of starting parkour again (used to teach it a while back). My current (and ugly) stats are below:

Age: 22
Height: 5’9
Weight: 93kg
Bodyfat: 22% (High!)

You will notice the below is constructed from primarily Thibs ideas with a couple of minor tweaks from myself.

  • My proposition is a somewhat intense 6 week cut.
  • 5 meals a day.
  • 1g protein per lb bodyweight, carbs under 30g, fat equal to calories of protein+carbs.
  • Carb up every 2 weeks with 0.75g per lb bodyweight from clean sources, other macros constant.
  • Evening of day before diet and on evening of every carb up I will be taking leucine at 5-10g every 2 hours to shift into ketosis faster.
  • Workout nutrition will be based around whey isolate/glutamine/glycine/bcaa/leucine. This is added on top of daily calories.
  • 1g fish oil per % bodyfat, will be factored into calorific requirements.
  • Calories recalculated the morning after each carb up after a weigh in if required.
  • Further deficit possible by dropping fat to equal just protein calories on the second week of each pair. Return to normal macro guidelines the week after each carb up.
  • Diet will be tapered off in 1-2 weeks then 2-3 weeks of normal eating before reassessing.
  • HOT-ROX Extreme will be added if required.

Training will be 3x a week.
A) Chest/Biceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
B) Legs, Intervals, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
C) Back/Triceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
30 mins cardio on off days (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)

QUESTIONS:

  1. This is an intense 6 week cut but are calories too low? eg. for a 200lb individual calories would be 1840 on off days, somewhere close to 2000 on training days?
  2. Is protein too low? I have gone lower then Thibs typical reccomendation but I have seen him use short bursts of lower protein intakes in some diets (eg. regressive keto cycle).
  3. Should I raise calories and do it for a little longer? Say 8 weeks? Or should I taper off, eat at maintenance and then repeat if required? I cant see me getting lower then say 16% tops over 6 weeks. Alternatively after this blitz I could taper off, eat at maintenance and then focus on a less intense cutting regieme. I would however like to drop down to sub 15% ASAP so I can get on with things.

Also… thoughts on leucine with each meal? It is cheap… But then how much (in grams)?
BCAA between meals… Do people still do this?

WAY too complicated. You really don’t need to do anything fancy or overthink this.

If you have been through a period where your training has suffered and you have ended up seriously de-trained, just getting back to simple program will yield very good results. If you are that badly out of shape then 6 weeks is plenty of time to significantly change your appearance.

One thing I would recommend though is training more than 3 x week if recomp/fatloss is your goal. Instead of splitting everything into 3 sessions per week, take the same workload and spread it over (for instance) 5 days. This way, as you are stimulating growth/muscle more often, the nutrient partitioning effects will be greatly enhanced.

That, and focus on strength and PRs. They are always a number 1 priority whatever your goal. Work hard with a decent, straightforward program and results will follow.

RFL

Uhhh…V-Diet?

It’s right here on the site, take a look at it.

It lays out everything for you so it’s a no-brainer.

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Background:

  • Calories recalculated the morning after each carb up after a weigh in if required.

Training will be 3x a week.
A) Chest/Biceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
B) Legs, Intervals, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
C) Back/Triceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
30 mins cardio on off days (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)

[/quote]

I think the above-quoted sections aren’t a good idea. Why would you recalc your calories after a carb up, when you weigh more due to water retention?

I don’t think you need a carb-up if you’re only doing this for 6 weeks. I would plan on not having any carb-up, just use them if you start to feel like absolute shit. I’m currently on week 5 of a blitz-type diet, and I didn’t plan on having any carb-up days, but I felt I needed a carb meal every once in a while.

I also think training 3x a week is far too little. For the first 4 weeks of my current diet, I used the template laid out here with excellent results: http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/wrong_thread_1

The way I did it was one body part per day (chest, quads, hams, shoulders, back; minimal arm work) with the template he laid out. One strength movement followed by a speed or maximum rep movement. I added the cardio on days I had time for it after the workout, and had a complex & cardio day. I was training 6 days a week this way.

I can send you all the details of the workout if you PM me. I got much better results from the above than I did with CT’s more popular Refined Physique Transformation plan.

[quote]elusive wrote:
RFL[/quote]

I did consider this actually however Ive heard stories of people dropping an uncomfortable amount of muscle tissue.

[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
Uhhh…V-Diet?

It’s right here on the site, take a look at it.

It lays out everything for you so it’s a no-brainer.[/quote]

I have done the V-Diet before and was not happy with the results.

I did my own modified version the other year with MUCH better results (for me) - dropped carbs down to 30g tops with low carb workout nutrition, two lifting days and one strongman inspired session with a VERY heavy sandbag. I also included WAY more solid food then the V-Diet recommended.

I would do the previous diet again however I have a LOT more fat then before and I need that little bit more. Slightly higher calories then the V-Diet should allow me to extend the duration of things… or so I hope.

[quote]eggers wrote:

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Background:

  • Calories recalculated the morning after each carb up after a weigh in if required.

Training will be 3x a week.
A) Chest/Biceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
B) Legs, Intervals, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
C) Back/Triceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
30 mins cardio on off days (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)

[/quote]

I think the above-quoted sections aren’t a good idea. Why would you recalc your calories after a carb up, when you weigh more due to water retention?

I don’t think you need a carb-up if you’re only doing this for 6 weeks. I would plan on not having any carb-up, just use them if you start to feel like absolute shit. I’m currently on week 5 of a blitz-type diet, and I didn’t plan on having any carb-up days, but I felt I needed a carb meal every once in a while.

I also think training 3x a week is far too little. For the first 4 weeks of my current diet, I used the template laid out here with excellent results: http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/wrong_thread_1

The way I did it was one body part per day (chest, quads, hams, shoulders, back; minimal arm work) with the template he laid out. One strength movement followed by a speed or maximum rep movement. I added the cardio on days I had time for it after the workout, and had a complex & cardio day. I was training 6 days a week this way.

I can send you all the details of the workout if you PM me. I got much better results from the above than I did with CT’s more popular Refined Physique Transformation plan.[/quote]

After a moderate carb-up (note it isnt a hog wild cheesecake fest like most carb ups) I should be closer to my “normal” weight vs. my glycogen depleted state. I could easily drop anything up to 10lbs or so in 2 weeks with glycogen depletion and some fat loss… however if I were to recalculate using this new number Ill risk being too low with my intake!

I would love to see your training plan. I had made the mistake of over training whilst on a similar diet before however.

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
WAY too complicated. You really don’t need to do anything fancy or overthink this.

If you have been through a period where your training has suffered and you have ended up seriously de-trained, just getting back to simple program will yield very good results. If you are that badly out of shape then 6 weeks is plenty of time to significantly change your appearance.

One thing I would recommend though is training more than 3 x week if recomp/fatloss is your goal. Instead of splitting everything into 3 sessions per week, take the same workload and spread it over (for instance) 5 days. This way, as you are stimulating growth/muscle more often, the nutrient partitioning effects will be greatly enhanced.

That, and focus on strength and PRs. They are always a number 1 priority whatever your goal. Work hard with a decent, straightforward program and results will follow.
[/quote]

I want as rapid a change as possible so I can get on with things.
The 3x a week model is one of Thibs recommendations for those with a busy lifestyle - it was first outlined in his article on 5 reasons for failed body transformations (or something similar).
Would you suggest training 4 or 5 times a week on such low calories?
I have trained too heavily on low carb/low cals before… I looked/felt like shit as a result.
That being said I have also undershot it before also and not done enough volume.
This diet didnt seem too complex to me - which bit of it is excessive?

Thank you everyone for the replies!

What’s RFL?

[quote]elusive wrote:
RFL[/quote]

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
What’s RFL?

[quote]elusive wrote:
RFL[/quote]
[/quote]

Rapid Fat Loss

I do love the preference of real food on this diet however. I did receive better results when I did my own diet that was based off the Velocity diet compared to the Velocity diet itself… but with 30g carbs, low carb workout nutrition and mostly real foods (but still several shakes a day).

Reading that link, Thibaudeau seems like a very wise dude when it comes to training!

OP- I am ding something similar. In my opinion, you can change a few things.

  1. The training, and especially cardio, are minimal. This is a ‘blitz’ yet you only plan on doing a maximum of 90 min cardio per week? I suggest you add more minutes, more frequently (obviously, linked to stalls in weight loss).

  2. If you’re not already, I would have regular shakes throughout the day containing a few grams each of glutamine, creatine and leucine, to help you stay productive in your training, and stop your muscles feeling depleted and flat, as you are going low carb.

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
Reading that link, Thibaudeau seems like a very wise dude when it comes to training!

OP- I am ding something similar. In my opinion, you can change a few things.

  1. The training, and especially cardio, are minimal. This is a ‘blitz’ yet you only plan on doing a maximum of 90 min cardio per week? I suggest you add more minutes, more frequently (obviously, linked to stalls in weight loss).
  2. If you’re not already, I would have regular shakes throughout the day containing a few grams each of glutamine, creatine and leucine, to help you stay productive in your training, and stop your muscles feeling depleted and flat, as you are going low carb.

[/quote]

I might give those aminio shakes a shot! I was primarily relying on the carbup and the glutamine/glycine/leucine/whey isolate/creatine/BCAA’s around training to try and keep the productivity of my training up… also HOT-ROX Extreme will be used pre training as a stimulant.

As for the cardio… primarily I was going to rely on the diet to keep me in a deficit… there is more then 90 mins cardio in there by the way! 20 mins after each lifting session and 30 mins on each off day… at a minimum!

In terms of intensity of cardio - what would you guys think… an easy 60-70% of my max heart rate?

[quote]benmoore wrote:

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
Reading that link, Thibaudeau seems like a very wise dude when it comes to training!

OP- I am ding something similar. In my opinion, you can change a few things.

  1. The training, and especially cardio, are minimal. This is a ‘blitz’ yet you only plan on doing a maximum of 90 min cardio per week? I suggest you add more minutes, more frequently (obviously, linked to stalls in weight loss).
  2. If you’re not already, I would have regular shakes throughout the day containing a few grams each of glutamine, creatine and leucine, to help you stay productive in your training, and stop your muscles feeling depleted and flat, as you are going low carb.

[/quote]

I might give those aminio shakes a shot! I was primarily relying on the carbup and the glutamine/glycine/leucine/whey isolate/creatine/BCAA’s around training to try and keep the productivity of my training up… also HOT-ROX Extreme will be used pre training as a stimulant.

As for the cardio… primarily I was going to rely on the diet to keep me in a deficit… there is more then 90 mins cardio in there by the way! 20 mins after each lifting session and 30 mins on each off day… at a minimum![/quote]

True, i missed that. Looks good

[quote]benmoore wrote:

[quote]elusive wrote:
RFL[/quote]

I did consider this actually however Ive heard stories of people dropping an uncomfortable amount of muscle tissue.[/quote]

Then they didn’t do it correctly.

Nutrition consultation is 150 bucks!

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]benmoore wrote:

[quote]elusive wrote:
RFL[/quote]

I did consider this actually however Ive heard stories of people dropping an uncomfortable amount of muscle tissue.[/quote]

Then they didn’t do it correctly.

Nutrition consultation is 150 bucks![/quote]

Then how can I, a poor college student expect to succeed on such a plan? :wink:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]benmoore wrote:

[quote]elusive wrote:
RFL[/quote]

I did consider this actually however Ive heard stories of people dropping an uncomfortable amount of muscle tissue.[/quote]

Then they didn’t do it correctly.

Nutrition consultation is 150 bucks![/quote]

Brick you’re persistent…

Another vote here for RFL. You would probably cut the time you have to achieve your goals in half (while doing much less cardio). Cardio #fail

[quote]eggers wrote:

[quote]benmoore wrote:
Background:

  • Calories recalculated the morning after each carb up after a weigh in if required.

Training will be 3x a week.
A) Chest/Biceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
B) Legs, Intervals, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
C) Back/Triceps, Metabolic Pairings, 20 mins cardio (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)
30 mins cardio on off days (increase by 5 min every 2 weeks)

[/quote]

I think the above-quoted sections aren’t a good idea. Why would you recalc your calories after a carb up, when you weigh more due to water retention?

I don’t think you need a carb-up if you’re only doing this for 6 weeks. I would plan on not having any carb-up, just use them if you start to feel like absolute shit. I’m currently on week 5 of a blitz-type diet, and I didn’t plan on having any carb-up days, but I felt I needed a carb meal every once in a while.

I also think training 3x a week is far too little. For the first 4 weeks of my current diet, I used the template laid out here with excellent results: http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/wrong_thread_1

The way I did it was one body part per day (chest, quads, hams, shoulders, back; minimal arm work) with the template he laid out. One strength movement followed by a speed or maximum rep movement. I added the cardio on days I had time for it after the workout, and had a complex & cardio day. I was training 6 days a week this way.

I can send you all the details of the workout if you PM me. I got much better results from the above than I did with CT’s more popular Refined Physique Transformation plan.[/quote]

Another thought on the training front from the same link you gave… the same post infact!:

"As I mentioned, I was getting ripped too fast. At that pace I would have diet before the 22 weeks mark!

I attribute this a lot to the metabolic work I performed, so I decided to change my training toward a heavy lifting protocol. I also increased my calories by around 500 per day."