T Nation

Help regarding Anti-Estrogens, Clomid, Nolva, HCG etc..


#1

Whats up guys...I am currently on week 6 of a 12 week cycle. My cycle is as follows:

Week 1: 300mg/Deca, 15mg/Dbol ed
week 2: 300mg/Deca, 20-mg/Dbol ed
Week 3: 300mg/Deca, 30mg/Dbol ed
Week 4: 300mg/Deca, 30mg/Dbol ed
Week 5: 300mg/Deca, 35mg/Dbol ed
Week 6: 300mg/Deca, 40mg/Dbol ed
Week 7: 300mg/Deca, 75mg/Tren eod
Week 8: 300mg/Deca, 75mg/Tren eod
Week 9: 300mg/Deca, 75mg/Tren eod
Week 10: 300mg/Deca, 75mg/Tren eod
Week 11: 75mg/Tren eod
Week 12: 75mg/Tren eod

I am using milk thistle just to be safe from the Dbol. I'm eating 5-6x a day very clean and cutting my carbs at night to keep more lbm up. My question is that I am on the 6th week, which is the last week of the dbol and I havent been on any anti-estrogens. Reason being is because I was told by many people that my dosages are pretty moderate and I wouldn't need it. But after reading many of the past Strasseroids, S-files, and Chemical Solution articles I'm beginning to think that I should have been taking some Clomid or Nolvadex anyways but then I was told just to use it either 2 weeks before the cycle ends or for 3 weeks once I am off. I'm actually pretty confused as to what to do and really need some advice. Not to include too much details but I don't get as hard as I would normally before my cycle and my golden jewels have shurnk a little. I've been told this is normal while on a cycle but goes back to normal when you're off. I just hope this is not permanent. I should aslo mention this is my first cycle. Lastly, should I be taking anything to help out my kidneys being that the fina is rough on the kidneys and as far as the dbol goes, should I maybe extend that to 8 weeks at a lower dosage (20mg/ed) to avoid crashing after my good results. Please help me out guys. I know I might get flamed but I did alot of research on this and still seem to be confused. I would appreciate some answers and take this as a def. learning experience for any cycles I do again. Thanks alot.


#2

No disrespect but is this your first cycle? The reason why you are not getting as hard as you use to is because you are using deca and tren without test. both of these hormones are known to cause that problem. A lot of people on this board will tell you that you need to add some test. Not even a lot, just around 250 would be good. As for your nuts shrinking, you know you are taking steroids? this is something that's happens, and it is very hard to avoid. Like you said don't worry about it because after your cycle your natural test, clomid and HCG will rejuvenate those things.
Man.. truthfully I keep reading your post and I really don't know what you are trying to do? cut? mass? a pick me up, really what are you trying to do? Seriously next time before you do a cycle, post it here and take the flaming. (i.e. look about 6 post back you will see what I mean) Forget the bad stuff but remember the good. It is all a learning experience, that we have to go through. Anyway man, I feel like I have gave you a start to this question and don't want to make this any longer then what it is. I will PM you to finish this.


#3

I can tell that you have done research. That is obvious that you did put some effort into it. It is also obvious that you got maybe too much info and are now very confused.

I don't advise clomid during the cycle; there's no point. I always have test as a base in my cycles especially if you're taking deca and/or tren. The clomid should be started at the beginning of week 13. You may not need arimidex or nolvadex, but you should have some handy, just in case.


#4

I think you need test as a base and I'd go with Serophene (clomid). For me it worked really good from the start of my cycle and really I didn't have any problem with the "hardness". As far as ball shrinkage the Serophene will work in that department too. Actually from what I've read on files here it's the best to protect from gyno and ball shrinkage.

Good luck!
k.


#5

Did nobody catch that he is already halfway through this cycle???

You know you should already have your anti's handy so I would pretty much follow Merlin's advice. Some will tell you that you don't need anti-e's during your cycle and that they can hinder your gains, some say otherwise. Personally, I would rather not gain the extra 2 lbs and not get gyno. You really have to judge your own body's response to how much you are shooting. If you start getting "the itch", then you should have already been on some nolva. You will find a myriad of recommended doses doing a search.

Clomid will help you come off...again, you can do a search or follow Merlin's advice above. HCG will help get those bad boys back up to size.

By the way, Ive never done any roids so I could be full of shit.


#6

Wow, Deca and tren, I would never do that, I would at least add test. I would also never do tren for the last two weeks, or deca for the last 4 weeks, or run it longer than 8 weeks total.


#7

Thanks for your help guys. I've taken everything into consideration but will stick to Merlin's advice and start the clomid on week 13. One last thing I would need to know is how much to take daily and for how many weeks? Lastly to clarify the question as to why I added the tren to the cycle, simple reason being I wasn't getting the gains I was expecting and was told on this forum that Deca and Dbol are stacked great with tren. Many of my buddies also told me that tren is great to add to a cycle.


#8

The clomid protocol that I use and was posted a couple days ago in Tree Hugger's post is as follows:
Day 1 300mg
Day 2 250mg
Day 3 200mg
Day 4 150mg
Day 5 100mg
Day 6 50mg
Continue 50 for about 30 days or until you feel necessary. There's a lot of different ways to do the clomid therapy, but that's mine.

You definitely should have arimidex or nolvadex hanging around before you start the cycle. I've never used either one, but I have some in case I ever need it.


#9

sabrosura
I don't no where you got the impression that a d-bol/deca stack was a good idea but I can't imagine you got that idea from t-forums. If someone did reccommend it, it certainly wasn't any of the vets! I guess it is more likely that you got that stack off another lower quality forum.
I am a newbie with no experience of deca but having read up alot of the stuff available here I would never consider a deca/d-bol only cycle. But plenty other sites would promote this sort of cycle citing the low side effects of deca w/o really mentioned its suppressive nature or the infamous deca dick.
Just recently completed my first cycle of 750mg sust/75mg Tren/20mg D-bol and i am very happy with the results and it came from reccommedations off this site. I took arimidex throughout and I'm on clomid post-cycle. I gained 17lbs and some massive strength gains which hopefully I'll keep most of when I'm fully recovered.
There are a few things I would change next time that I have learnt since (HCG, enanthate instead of sust, 200mg/wk test bridge, add eq). And that is why this site is so good because there is always new ideas and knowledge shared which enable people like you and me to use AAS safely and effectively.
Hopefully you'll see that the information and advice is of a higher level on this site than most and use some of that to constuct a better cycle next time which will give you the results you expect and safely.
I'm not trying to bust your balls just trying to nudge you in the right direction.


#10

I do appreciate all the advice. As far as where I got the cycle, it was off another website (what was I thinking?). I chose it because it seemed rather a safe alternative at first but once I got used to the injections I regret not doing something a little heavier. I learned the hard way for sure but am not disappointed for a first cycle. So far, pretty good strength and size gains off the cycle(minimal water ret) and I'm only half way through. I start the tren in about a week and I read tren is great and as someone mentioned on the forum a while back, tren is stacked great with deca/dbol (dont know the validity of this so if its not recommended please let me know) I'm glad I got the clarification for the Clomid. My last question is to Merlin or anyone else who is familiar with the anti-e and PCT area. From what I see so far, I dont need any clomids right now during my cycle nor nolvadex but rather take clomid afterwards in the protocol mentioned a couple of replies earlier. But I'd like to know if I need any HCG or would this be pointless?