T Nation

Help Reading Bloodwork During Tbol/Test E Cycle

I’m Looking for someone to help read blood-work throughout the cycle and some guidance, I am happy to pay of course.

My age is 37, I have been training for 3 years. 183 cm and 83 kg. my goal is to bulk but stay lean.

Planned cycle:
12 weeks of Test E 400-500mg
6 weeks Tbol 40-50mg
5 weeks of PCT Clomid

Please comment my cycle and help out if possible

I think you can just use this as a log, and you won’t have to pay anyone.

Cycle looks pretty good, try to pin 2X a week at least. You doing the Tbol at the beginning or end?

Detail out PCT some. When does it start, dosages?

Do you have an AI or Nolva on hand in case of gyno? You should not use it unless you need it, but should you need it, have it on hand.

As for blood work, I would look at Testosterone, E2, Prolactin, Hematocrit, Liver Enzymes (ALT / AST), Lipids, Kidney values (BUN and Creatinine). It is ideal to do this pre, mid, and post PCT.

I would also monitor Blood Pressure and Pulse. Don’t keep going if BP gets too high.

1 Like

Appreciate your help @mnben87 kindly check it once again pls.

Planned cycle:

week 1 to week 12 - Test E 400-500mg (2 shots per week)
week 1 to week 6 - Tbol 40-50mg.
week 14 to week 19 - PCT Clomid
week 14-15 clomid@ 40mg/day
week16-19 clomid@20mg/day

  • Hypercaloric mass gainer supplement to help with bulking + clean diet (I want similar gains of Dbol without the nasty side effects and puffiness)
  • Milk thistle for the liver
  • Arimidex on hand

Not sure if I also need Pregnyl5000 and Tamoxifen for PCT, I am still doing research on that, any help would be appreciated?

Good tip on Blood Pressure and Pulse, I will get the devices from amazon.

Push this out at least one week. 2 weeks after your last week isn’t enough at your dosage. Your ability to recover will be reduced if you still have exogenous test at high levels.

Get TUDCA. It is pretty effective (pretty sure quite a bit better than milk thistle). You can order it on Amazon and it is cheap.

The brand of HCG will not matter much. If you do use it, I recommend it between your last pin and your PCT. If it is me, I would taper up to 500 iu EOD. The reason to taper up, is E2 levels. As your Test starts to drop, you will be able to handle more HCG with a lower probability of E2 sides. Start at something like 200 iu EOD, and work up. Don’t take it during the SERM PCT.

I B&C (blast and cruise with TRT). I don’t have to PCT. From what I have heard, most people prefer Nolva over Clomid for PCT. It has less sides and works well.

@mnben87 Thanks again man
My question now is: how do I know what I need and what I don’t for my PCT?

I think the dosages you listed out are the typical dosages for Nolva. A bit low if using Clomid. Either of these will work. Nolva just seems to have fewer sides for most.

The HCG is optional, but if I was cycling I would use it between the cycle and PCT. It will get your balls up and running, but not the pituitary (which signals the balls with LH and FSH). HCG is suppressive to the pituitary, but between the cycle and PCT it does not matter since the pituitary is shut down for LH and FSH production anyways.

By using it as I recommend (bridge between cycle and PCT), you will probably speed up recovery, as your balls should be functioning well with the HCG. Then all you need is to get back your pituitary to signal the balls. HCG is an analog to LH, which is why it is suppressive to the pituitary (it thinks LH is high because it can’t tell the difference between LH and HCG).

This is a dumbed down explanation. Understanding how the HPTA loop works and how the different SERMs, AIs, Test and HCG impact it would be a good thing to understand before using them IMO. Understanding how it all works will help you make more educated decisions.

You lost me at LH and FSH haha

Wouldn’t you provide a discretionary consultancy throughout my cycle to help me out with the decisions?

Well, I try to do this from a perspective of what I would do. Consultancy would put me in a position of being an unqualified person giving medical advice, and would make me liable. I understand the probability of this happening is low, but still not something I can do.

I can give you what I would do, but not what you should do, if you tag me during your cycle. I can also give you general theory as I have been doing, and the logic of why I would do something. I am not the most knowledgeable on this board FYI. I’ll tag a few others to help you @unreal24278, @iron_yuppie, @readalot, @blshaw, @lordgains. These guys understand pharma well.

That being said, I would encourage you to spend a while reading on here and other places on how this stuff should be done. You will read some wrong stuff too. That is why it is important to read a lot (to understand what is sound and what is BS). Read a lot, you are after all injecting your body with hormones. Many people suffer bad side effects just because they are uneducated, many suffer bad side effects doing things correctly. If you choose to use AAS, do the best you can to only accept the latter of the two risks.

LH is luteinizing hormone. Males and females make this hormone. In the male body, one of its purposes is to signal the balls to make testosterone and to a smaller extent sperm.

FSH is follicle stimulating hormone. Again present in both males and females. In men, it stimulates hair follicles, and also signals the balls to make sperm, and to a lesser extent testosterone (at least IIRC it is a signal for testosterone).

When you take steroids, these two hormones should drop to very near zero (if you have a tumor on your pituitary they might not). What happens is your pituitary senses too much testosterone (steroids will be effectively seen as testosterone), and therefore doesn’t want to signal your body to make more.

1 Like

Thanks for taking the time to write this, I wouldn’t expect anyone to take responsibility for my cycle,I have done plenty of reading and I will do more. But It would be great to have someone more experienced to assist me during the cycle. Hopefully one of those guys tagged will be up to accompanying me.

Well if you update this log and tag me, I’ll tell you what I would do in whatever situation you find yourself in, but I am not going to tell you what to do. I am not going to recommend compounds, etc. I am fairly confident that the others I tagged will offer info in the same way that I am.

I think if you really want someone to lay everything out for you, you will probably have to hire a BBing coach. I personally would not go that route, as it seems more often than not when people post the cycles they got from their coach it is absolutely insane and void of logic.

1 Like

@mnben87 seems to have made sound advice. I’m also not a PCT guy due to my TRT regimen. I used clomid before TRT without issue though. Dosage is typically a little higher than Nolva as in 50mg ED for first two weeks and 25mg ED last two weeks. From what I’ve read there are less reported side effects from Nolvadex hence the constant mention of it being the preferable PCT drug.

1 Like

@mnben87 gave you sound advice as usual.

I can add a tiny bit here.

Clomid has 50 or 25 mg Tablets and tamoxifen 40 or 20 mg. So the dosing scheme recommended is
Clomid 50/50/25/25
Tamox 40/40/20/20

hCG is for the Ende of your cycle and before pct. you can start 2 weeks before the end of your injections with 2 times per week. Then finish it up the week before you start Clomid or Nolvadex. But I think Clomid is the stronger one of the two for PCT purposes.

I don’t know if Clomid or Nolva has less emotional sides, didn’t seem to be a difference for me. But Nolva has less frequent eye side effects for example.
Only use one. The length of your PCT is not very important. It shouldn’t be too short. 4+ weeks is good. Get bloods at the earliest 2-3 weeks after PCT, better would be 4-8 weeks.

What you NEED for PCT: Tamoxifen or Clomifen

What you can do for PCT: hCG

1 Like

Your cycle looks good and you’ve got good advice here. Personally I wouldn’t do 4 weeks of clomid. For this a simple nolva pct of 4 weeks as laid out would be fine. If I was doing it I would use the HCG for the four weeks between stopping the test and starting PCT. if you really want to use clomid for some reason, do 1 week of clomid at 50mg/day followed by 4 weeks nolva. But that’s probably overkill for this. Good luck.

1 Like

Appreciate it man!

I have started a TBOL + TEST cycle today and my exams from Last week just got back, showing, High cholesterol, what is the best way to manage and bring it down?

My natural testosterone is also low and MHC high, I have attached the results and any help/advise would be appreciated.

See results:

Also, since my testosterone is low, would it be a good idea to skip the PCT and cruise into a TRT after my cycle, If yes, then do you have any advice on how to do that?

Hey Guys, I am on my 3rd week of Tbol stacked with 300mg week of Test-E.
I feel like Tbol is doing nothing to me maybe is because I did Dbol before and was used to the great result of it.

I want to drop Tbol and add Dbol for the next 2week then carry on with Test only for 5 more weeks to finish my 10 weeks cycle.

My question is: would that be ok to switch Orals mid Cycle?

Cheers…

Tbol is slower and steadier on the “gains”. I would ride out tbol. If you want to switch I would probably carry the dbol for 3 weeks min.

Sounds good man, I was also thinking about finish the 3rd week with TBOL, take 4 weeks break and then end with Dbol for 3 weeks.

I will also do a liver check before starting with the Dbol. (PS. I am on TRT after the cycle)
How does that sound, based on your experience? @blshaw

If you were PCT I would start it the last week and into the bridge but since you are TRT yes, the end sounds much better.