T Nation

Help Quitting TRT. Age 48 in UK

Thank you Systemlord. I understand what you are saying, and completely agree. Despite the consultant being based in the leading Mens Helath Centre in the UK
dealing with TRT, he has got my doseage wrong, and the sides from having elevated RBC, Test & Estrogen have been rough.
If I was 100% convinced that TRT was the only way forward I would be lowering my dose as you suggested, 90mg a week as a reference point. However given that I have stopped the injections, it seems an opportunity has arisen to try life off the TRT & injections, and in doing this I would like to give myself the best chance of restarting my natural production (maybe this time my body may respond better to it?). Now, I fully understand this may be futile, and I may feel even worse, in which case i will be back on TRT, albeit at a lower dose as you suggest.
However i would like to try, and dont want to regret not trying at a later date and was looking for advice on the least harsh and most suitable PCT for my situation.
hope this makes sense?

Ask about PCT in the pharma section

If do decide to stay off, once PCT is done try this…

Do not look at PCT in Pharma forum, the advice there is wrong/stupid and harmful.

The problem is your protocol and the state of health care there. If you found a private physician you could get things right.

Peaking T levels help drive RBC and hematocrit. Steadier levels from 50mg subq, not IM, twice a week would be better. Meanwhile take one mini aspirin per day to improve blood flow, it makes red blood cells slippery. Avoid dehydration at all times and for lab work. Avoid iron fortified {flour | breads | rice | vitamins etc} men do not need added iron unless something is wrong. Read the food labels.

As with most guys here, especially from the UK, you have some thyroid problems and these typically are from a lack of iodine. All the more there as iodized salt is not in most stores, but in a few.

TSH should be closer to 1.0
Your lab result is “normal” because the lab ranges are simply stupid.
Please eval your overall thyroid function via oral body temperatures, see below. Read the thyroid basics sticky.

Also see the “HPTA restart” sticky to understand objectives and alternative methods.

Many guys with TRT done right do not feel well with thyroid issues.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.

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Thanks KSman, a really interesting post and read…

Meanwhile take one mini aspirin per day to improve blood flow, it makes red blood cells slippery.

Thanks, now taking 1x 75mg asprin per day.

Avoid dehydration at all times and for lab work.

Working on this, switched from caffeinated coffee to decaf and camomile tea in big mugs a while back, urine is pale/clear mostly.

Avoid iron fortified {flour | breads | rice | vitamins etc} men do not need added iron unless something is wrong. Read the food labels.


As with most guys here, especially from the UK, you have some thyroid problems and these typically are from a lack of iodine. All the more there as iodized salt is not in most stores, but in a few.
TSH should be closer to 1.0

TSH 2 weeks ago (last bloods) was 1.81 uIU/nL with a range of 0.35 – 4.95 and shown as low on the scale.

Please eval your overall thyroid function via oral body temperatures, see below. Read the thyroid basics sticky.

Read it thanks, and will take temperature tomorrow morning.
Have ordered some LUGOLS IODINE drops to add to water and drink as per sticky

Also see the “HPTA restart” sticky to understand objectives and alternative methods.

Read it thanks, this is the protocol I put forward to my Doc, he favoured the 20 mg Nolvadex EOD for 4-6 weeks and will discuss this with me on Monday.

Thank you for your help, will post again when I have my waking body temperature, and again after Monday – my doc is attending a TRT forum this week and will discuss the restart protocols I gave him, I am due to talk to him again on Monday, which is 3 weeks from my last injection, so a good time to start PCT in whichever format he is willing to support (or I will have to go to an online pharma to sort).

Thanks again from one engineer to another!

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KSman…have taken temperature on 2x mornings now
97.1 & 97.4 F
so i am guessing this is a little low.
have iodine drops and after reading the stickies am under the impression that there i should include a loading period of approx 4 weeks (37.5mg per day, which is 3 drops to give me 1g-1.5g) and then a maintenace dose…which is lower but not sure what?
any pointers appreciated


Now 3 weeks from my last 125mg sustanon injection.
6 days from starting 1x 75mg aspirin per day
1x Iodine 18.75mg & Potassium iodide 37.55mg (not sure about this dosage??)
Fish oil
Vit D3 125 mcg
Grapeseed extract 4000mg

Spoke to my doctor who is extremely hesitant in giving me any Arimidex or Nolva (which were my preference for PCT). His rational being that they are both very strong drugs that he would only recomend if required, and we can always introduce them as symptoms appear-and as I seem fine now there is no need at present.
I understand his thought process to a point, although I was of course hoping for ‘preventative’ pct, rather than ‘cure’ if that makes sense.

Anyhow, in general feeling a lot better than when I was on TRT/sustanon, no anxiety, infact a feeling of general well being and peace, no drop off in libido (although I do realize some of the sustanon will still be in my system) and still getting morning wood.
So all good so far, just playing ‘wait and see’ at the moment.

Any thoughts on when I should feel the full effects of coming off TRT?
When should my body start to produce its own test/sperm etc?
Is the iodine protocol sufficient?
and at what points should I get bloods to confirm progress?

Thanks for any input guys

4 weeks from my last 125mg Sustanon injection and finally got my doc to prescribe Nolvadex. also had bloods taken to see where i am, as although feeling anxious in the morning and having a few joint issues (knee inflamation), prior to introducing any more hormone altering drugs into my system i was looking for any advice?

Bloods are:

TESTOSTERONE 12.2 nmol/L 7.6 - 31.4
Testosterone/SHBG Ratio 25.4 range 24 - 104
17-Beta OESTRADIOL <44 pmol/L < 192
D.H.E.A. Sulphate 6.6 umol/L 0.44 - 13.4

Any input appreciated on adding nolvadex?

You were feeling a lot better 6 days ago because the level of Sustanon in your body dropped to a more optimal amount for your own physiology.

Together with the drop in Sustanon, your E2 will have fallen from very high, to a lower healthier level, good for well being, libido & sex function.

Bear in mind how you felt 6 days ago & what others have said - that you needed a lower dose of Sustanon via more frequent smaller quantity injections.

I do hope a HPTA restart works for you though! In an ideal world none of us would need any medication.

He will eventually figure it out when he crashes after 3 weeks, he has lowered his dose in his system by stopping treatment. The reason you feel better is because E2 is lower, which lowering your dosage would have done.

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thanks mrmeeseeks
i know the odds are against it, however like i said in my first post - i think i would regret not trying this one time before accepting lifelong TRT.
am due to start Nolva only PCT (KSman protocol) tomorrow, so thats a month on from last injection. will have next bloods done in 2 weeks to see where i am going and post.

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thanks fro the reply systemlord
i am now just over 4 weeks from my last injection, and am due to start PCT tomorrow. i realise by stopping i have lowered the T & E in my sytem which has helped with the sides i was experiencing. however, as i said in my first post, i think i would regret not trying one time to see where i am at, off the TRT.
will post bloods as i progress.

I hope it goes well mate, I’ll follow this thread :slight_smile:

I think I misunderstood your first post :S Did you mean that before any TRT or medication your Total T was 19.07 nmol/L but your E2 was 140 pmol/L ?

Those were your figures untouched by medication?

mrmeeseeks thats correct.
Before any treatment my Test levels were19.07 nmol/L and Oestradiol was 140 pmol/L. Due to my symptoms (lethargic, reduced sexual desires, decreased motivations) the consultand felt that i was not responding to my natural test and prescribed TRT.

After looking at my bloods whilst on TRT and at a time when i was feeling pretty good…my Test was 18.7 nmol/L (lower, but external test) and my estrogen was 101 pmol/L.
a little voice in the back on my mind keeps telling me the Dr should have looked at reducing Estrogen as a first try. Anyhow, experience is character building lol

It might just be me being thick haha, but I’d edit your first post in this thread to make it more clear what your bloods were before any medication.

From that pre medication blood work, do you have SHBG, albumin, free T plus any thyroid tests - TSH, Free T4, Free T3, reverse T3, antibody test.

Include the units of measurement + lab ranges for all blood work.

I’d edit your first post to include all this data as well

Age :
Height : feet & inches
Waist : inches
Weight : pounds
Body and facial hair :
Where I carry fat :
Health conditions :
Diet :
Training :
Testicle aches:
Morning wood :
Supplements :
History of iodine & selenium intake:
7 days of oral body temperature taken as soon as you wake - before speaking or drinking anything.

Lastly has KSMan looked at this thread?

If not copy & paste the URL of this thread in the ‘KSMan is here’ topic, link below:

thanks for the input, will get on it now - done!

Due to start PCT today based on KSman’s restart protocol
wk 1-4 20 mg Nolvadex EOD (10mg am, 10mg pm)
wk 4-5 10 mg Nolvadex EOD (10mg pm)
wk 5-6 5 mg Nolvadex EOD (5mg pm)

i have read it is worth running at 10mg EOD for a few days to gauge bodys reaction to the drug (as first time taking)…is this sensible?
also the correct time to take the drug is at bedtime, or split am/pm?


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Your labs: TT was too low. E2 very low from low FT to feed FT–>E2. TT was inflated with lots of non-bioavailable SHBG+T reducing FT. TT overstating your then T status.

DHEA OK and hard to get there. In USA it is sold with the vitamins.

Anastrozole and Nolvadex are not harsh or strong drugs when used in small amounts to modulate hormones. Too complicated for many doctors.

On restart you have omitted anastrozole.
You should be testing LH/FSH which first proves that is it working, not low and also to see that LH/FSH are not getting high. 20mg/day might drive E2 high. I did not recommend 2x per day. Please reread the restart.

Thanks KSman
I agree my E2 is low, have the clicking joints and inflamed knee which indicates this.
However I am now even more confused -are you suggesting I should take DHEA supplement? I can get that in UK, if so what dose?

Regarding Nolvadex
What dose are you suggesting ?
4 weeks at 20mg every other day? (Or 10mg every day?)
Then 2 weeks at 10mg every other day?

Regarding Anastrozole
Unfortunately the doc won’t prescribe this.

If you could give ANY FURTHER info on a low dose/no sides PCT/restart in simple terms this would be greatly appreciated
Thank you


6 weeks on from my last TRT/Sustanon 125mg injection
1 week into Nolvadex 20mg EOD pct
Arimidex in vodka on hand incase of symtoms- dont want to use yet as estrogen is crashed at present-sore knees!

apart from inflamed knees- which i presume are from the low Estrogen, I am feeling really good. All anxiety has gone, energy levels are not quite where they were whilst on TRT, but back feeling motivated and good to go.
Still getting morning wood :slight_smile: all things working well in that area and the ‘boys’ are getting a bit larger.

Am currently taking per day:
omega full spectrum 3600mg
multi vit
l-arganine 1000mg
vit D3 7500mg
zinc 30mg
magnesium 450 mg
grapeseed extract 4000mg
folic acid 800mcg
Iodine (loading dose for 1 month just completed, now on with maint dose)
nolvadex 20mg EOD
and glucosamine, MSM & chondroitin for my knees!

Will have new bloods to post on Wednesday to see where levels are.