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Help Post Trestolone Cycle

Hi Guys

So first allow me to start by saying I have come here for genuine advice only. Now that is out of the way…

I am on TRT (gel) dialled in and have been for 3 years. I recently completed a 4 week cycle of transdermal Trestolone at 2ml per day (45mg/1.5ml), and did very well. Literally felt on fire. Strength, mentality and libido went through the roof. Made gains. Felt great.

Although touted as a very harsh experimental compound, I picked Trestolone specifically for it’s unique property of (in some cases) sustaining male characteristics in the absence of Testosterone (also increasing libido not killing it). I believe it is forked from a 19-Nor at it’s roots, so not a compound I’d recommend anyone mess with (certainly not after my experience) Since I am recieving TRT though, I thought pct wouldn’t matter, although of course I covered all of my basis on cycle with a comprehensive cycle support.

Other tools I have been using for around 3 months are pre workout and nitric oxide boosters. I also started supplementing with fish oil, multi vitamins and a concentrated dose of vitamin c & d.

Now for the problem. I decided after my trest cycle to stop everything to give myself a break. No pre workout, no nitric oxide boosters, literally just my TRT and diet. Honestly? I feel like absolute crap. Literally a shadow of myself a month ago.

Seriously, I feel worse than when I did prior to TRT. No motivation. Tingling in fingers. Flushed/run down look in face. Depressed.

But more worrysome, the physical feelings. I have experienced an unexplained and significant drop in strength. Anxiety like chest pains. Can barely make one deadlift with 150kg without a cramping feeling/pain in lower back. I was cluster deadlifting 200kg for 5x5 peice of cake around 4 weeks ago and still completed and entire 1.30 hours of training.

Something feels seriously off all of a sudden, and before I get bloodwork checked I wonder if anyone with more experience could give their thoughts and point some directions as to what could be going on? And where to start?

I get this too when I get very anxious

Get a complete blood count. Trest is ridiculously strong, on paper it’s like 3-4x stronger than tren mg for mg. It’s hard to believe it’s still sold on eBay here and as a dietary supplement. You’re lack of libido is potentially due to depleted dopamine and serotonin (19-nors are known to do this), tis reversible, just give it time. High RBC can give painful pumps, if you stay off cycle it’ll go back to normal in about 3 mths or you can donate blood.

Get bloods on testogel, sometimes people stop absorbing the gel properly or absorption rate is reduced, this could also be playing a factor into you feeling shitty.

As to the chest pain, is you’re heart beat regular? When you feel exhausted how high is you’re HR? If you’re skipping beats go to a doc to get checked out. Have you previously had anxiety that resulted in chest pain? I tend to find anxiety induced chest pain (for me) results in a mild but persistent tightness/ feeling of uneasyness in my chest, the anxiety is sometimes accompanied by a mildly elevated hr.

If you have a doc that you can be open and honest with (a luxury most of us don’t have), then it can’t hurt to go for a checkup.

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Hey Man…

Awesome reply thank you. Believe it or not your reply has struck a chord because I have experienced anxiety in the past.

Safe to assume my problem may likely be neuro/mental rather than anything else then?

Am I correct in assuming that dopamine/serotonin disturbances can literally kill mind to muscle connection hence the feeling of complete lack of strength/drive?

If that is the case would it be worth grabbing some 5-htp and high purity L-Dopa? I didn’t cover myself after cycle because the cycle support I was using covered prog/prolactin on cycle so I assumed that would of been enough.

I have suffered chest pain before and the obvious concern is LVH, but an ecg 2 years ago returned normal readings, blood pressure is always stable and heart beat pattern normally fine.

I’d agree trest is strong, it was a silly mistake to use it but hey human curiosity etc. I certainly wouldnt of had I of not been on TRT and to be fair i only used it with the intention of breaking free from a bit of a flat spell of training.

Another symptom I have noticed in recent weeks is a lactic acid type feeling even when raising my arm my muscles just feel heavy/fatigued like I’ve exhausted them. Weird.

And you suggest this could be a high hemo issue too?

Holy shit it’s like I’m talking to a mirror. I have constant episodes of anxiety about this … The funny thing is I’ve never even gone over 250mg/wk of test (or anything). If it wasn’t for my anxiety id probably be using higher doses and reeeeaaaallly getting into bodybuilding, like attempting to compete.

Anxiety is a real piece of shit, it significantly reduces quality of life and the ability to generally live a full and happy life that allows one to reach their full potential. I don’t want to use benzodiazepines so I’m currently looking for an alternate way to deal with my anxiety (potentially increasing SSRI dose which I don’t think does anything or trying meditation, hell I’d even prefer marijuana over benzodiazepines)

As to the lactic acid feeling in arms, is it a “pumped feeling” or legitimately a lactic acid build up/burn feeling. Everytime I’ve ever worked my arms to exhaustion they feel heavy and pumped when I do anything with them (and yea, if my triceps are completely exhausted they’ll burn if I say reach overhead and try scratch my back)

Ibe also had an ECG done, however I was using dietary supps that fucked with my HR (wasn’t aware of it until I stopped using them, long story) and i’m worried I’ve caused damage. I’m contemplating seeing a cardiologist however I think it’s just a waste of money, I don’t have any symptoms of heart disease/failure. I get a fast heart beat when I exercise intensely or eat shit tons of simple carbohydrates (I’m glucose and fructose intolerant) sometimes though and my heart rate goes up very high during intense exercise (say during an intense run it can get up to 190BPM and I can sustain it there for about five minutes), I can even get my HR up to 200-210BPM during all out aerobic or anaerobic exercise (moreso during all out running, but not sprinting, like sustaining a running pace that isn’t fast but is enough to get me very tired in about a minute but sustaining that pace for say four minutes (I tend to like pushing to failure, it gives me a rush of endorphins) however the heart rate gives me anxiety when it goes that fast. Hell during an uphill cycle I can get up to 180BOM, during weight training I can get up to 130BPM (more if deadlifting for high reps), keep in mind I’m very young, however it still concerns me that I’m able to achieve (and sustain) such high heart rates for such long periods of time. My resting heart rate varies from 50-75BPM but is typically in the 60-65BPM range.

Yeet, anxiety for the win amirite

Did you take any additional AI while on trest? I’m wondering what your e2 looked like before, during, and after. Having e2 swing wildly up and down can absolutely mess with your mood, your libido, your strength, your everything frankly. I imagine between that possibility and the neuro effects you and Unreal are discussing your answer is somewhere in there.

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Anxiety most definietly sucks yea, and I hope my little stint at using such a compound makes others think twice. Even on TRT there are risks in wanting more.

I do my homework quite a lot so I’m far from stupid, but the body is an amazingly complex system so there is no guarentee and would I do this again? No chance.

Once again it struck a chord that this could be a serotonin/dopamine disturbance, as you suggest, caused by that compound. When I was using it I couldn’t stop thinking about sex.

Now it as if someone has flicked a switch. I believe dopamine is the reward/pleasure neurotransmitter amongst other things and serotonin is the relaxation/biological regulator - so perhaps I should focus on getting those back up to normality and go from there.

Yea sounds a similar situation man. LVH worries me a lot so much so I probably have no business experimenting with compounds like trest.

It’s a lactic acid feeling, in theory I could of introduced some taurine but I am no longer using the compound

Out of curiosity, why are you playing this guessing game before you’ve gotten bloodwork? I would have scheduled a blood test the day I thought something was wrong. It sounds like you’ve gone a month without doing this yet, and all the while just speculating about what’s wrong.

Hey Iron…

Another interesting point. In regards to estrogen/AI - the cycle support I used contained two AI’s one of which ATD… now I’m aware some people wouldnt touch that with a barge pole especially in PCT, I believe it is a suicidal AI - keep in mind it was used only on cycle though for a max of 4 weeks. I didnt think rebound would be too much of an issue. But yes I suppose I could be battling a post estrogen issue too…

Hey flip I know I know man, and you got a point honestly. Thing is though if you read between the lines I can’t just walk in to a TRT clinic and demand a blood test because of some compound I’ve been using. It’s a risk I took, but a risk most people will be taking mixing their TRT on their own accord. Do you know what I mean? It’s not a habit of mine but at the same time I shouldn’t of done it and now paying the price.

Way I see it some people are told not to drink or smoke on various medications but still do. I don’t want to lose my TRT but at the same time I’m like anyone else running a cycle just the difference being on TRT. I don’t want to sound like a douche or anything. It’s just a decision I took and now have to fix. But yea…

you can tell a doctor you’ve used steroids and still receive proper medical care. I’ve done it. Your doctor still has his hippocratic oath obligations, along with dr/patient confidentiality. You can say hey, I used this thing, it was a mistake, I stopped a month ago, now I need to get my health back on track, where do we go from here? If your doc will not treat you because of that, find one who will.

But that being said, I don’t always go to a dr to get bloodwork. You can do it via a website for a reasonable price. You can get a pretty comprehensive panel done for less than 150 bucks. You order the test online, then you go to a facility to have your blood drawn, and generally speaking, you’ll have the results emailed to you in a matter of days (2-4 has been my experience).

Agreed. Sounds like you got pretty lucky. Believe me if I was that honest where I’m from man I’d get kicked off of TRT without wanting to sound dramatic.

You know, the entire time of being on TRT I don’t recall having my estrogen checked once. It just doesn’t seem to be a mandatory concern here. They checked everything else though. I did answer the ‘have you used anything’ before question, and before recently I hadn’t. So perhaps they wouldn’t expect my estrogen to be of concern.

I do have a blood test next week. That will only be a full blood count and testosterone though. I say only, that will obvoiusly show important blood health.

In the meantime do you think it may be beneficial running a belated PCT/AI regardless of TRT? Just for additional estrogen control, or wait for things to rebalance naturally?

I can’t stop my training so even if I drop plates off the bar just to keep some normality…

I’m guessing that means not the US. I’m not familiar enough with laws outside of the US to be able to help in that regard.

that’s absurd. Shame on your doc. That is quite possibly the single most important number people on TRT should be checking. In my opinion, that number affects mood and well being even more than your testosterone value. If it crashes, life sucks. If it gets too high, life also sucks. Whereas there is a pretty wide range for testosterone where you can feel pretty good.

Absolutely not. You can’t treat your problem without knowing what the problem is. You NEED to know your e2 level before you do anything.

There is the potential that your e2 is crashed. You don’t know, because you haven’t had bloodwork. If it is, an AI would just make things worse. If e2 is high, a pct protocol (without an AI) has the potential to shoot e2 even higher. also not good.

is there a reason you can’t get e2 tested on your own? Is that not a thing you can do where you live?

Great reply once again thanks man.

Yea not from the US. I absolutely can get a private check though - probably a good start. That really does make sense. Yea I think the same. I would of thought that would need to be checked every 6-8 weeks along with everything else…

TRT is very inconsistent across the world, in terms of how it’s approached, how much management/help doctors give, how well educated they are on the subject, etc. Opening a TRT clinic is a really great way for a lazy doctor to make a lot of cash. They don’t have to be very good at their treatment to keep patients coming back. There’s no real standardization in TRT practices right now. Even in the US, proper treatment is hard to find. There are very few doctors who open TRT clinics who are also invested in furthering their understanding of the science, and the latest research. So while you’re right that e2 SHOULD be checked regularly, I’m not surprised that your doc isn’t doing it. It’s a common oversight.

Yea. No disrespect, but the vibe I get from mine is an old school one - you’re given your diagnosis - and then treated with a 1 solution fits all approach. I am 210lbs (or 15 stone) at 5ft’6 in very good shape - I can’t really afford to have any kind of rebound - crashing into a progressively worse catabolic state alongside high estrogen/cortisol/prolactin for much longer will be a disaster.

Crazy how a 4 week stint with good intentions can actually come worse off. Seriously, my advice to anyone after this, just don’t.

Here’s a question for you…

I know you suggested not speculating/doing a thing until getting a test which I totally agree with…

However, supposing my estrogen did come back too high (or low) as you suggest, where to go from there? It’s very unlikely I’d get anything pharma grade on a prescription which is obvious given my situation. So it feels a case of being a bit of the unknown…

I had absolutely no side effects from trest on cycle (as mentioned I used cycle support) So OTC stuff obviously can work even with handling something like trest (which feels an awesome compound not worth it’s after’s kind of thing).

Assuming a man had high estrogen, he would use his reading to bring his estrogen into a more optimal balanced range. Am I correct in thinking the optimal range would be an ideal ratio of testosterone/estrogen? Or is there no one optimal ideal?

Is crashed estrogen more difficult to balance than high estrogen? How?

It’s just an issue I’ve never really ventured before. Also, if the serotonin/dopamine issue is as simple as supplementing some 5-HTP/L-Dopa for a month or so, well I can grab some. This is new territory to me so it’s more a case of wanting to know what to do next than over thinking it (whilst learning in the process) etc…

Or, you just felt good because you had a bunch of trest in your system, then when you came off you no longer had the trest and whatever hormone was out of whack started fucking you up, because the OTC things you used did NOT control it.

Happens all the time; guys feel great on cycle because they’ve got a ton of androgens floating about but they don’t manage their E, so when they come off their test is all of a sudden in the basement but the E is still sky high.

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Agree

My money is that e2 is crashed. Always causes weird effects that are hard to pinpoint.

Or, of course that ^

I suppose you’d argue if it controlled it that well I wouldn’t be in this situation now. I should of got a full hormone profile prior to even considering it. Keep in mind over here we don’t actually get to see our results. It’s not like a bespoke private service.

The only positive to be had I guess is that I am on TRT so it won’t be a case of an actual test shutdown as that is already done. It has to be an issue with as you suggest estrogen or something else.

Probably the best thing I can do is order a private test and get the results posted and go from there. I can get a full panel.

Labs are key.

Otherwise you are making decisions in the dark.

It may NOT be estrogen, but you need to know, instead of guessing.

Yea true. Definietly don’t want to go in circles with this or continue guessing - so getting a full panel done will be my first step.

In regards to e2 - just actually read a thread posted by another guy who had crashed e2 from his cycle. Ironically he too was using a suicidal AI. It appears estrogen related issues from that class of AI can take a longer recovery so IF it is indeed crashed e2 it may be a case of just riding it out and letting things rebalance perhaps?

The only thing I will say is that Trest is obviously a wet compound as well so combined with the TRT if 50mg of ATD per day has actually crashed my e2 then that itself speaks volumes about ATD - there was to my knowledge nothing else I was using that would crash e2.

Where I am if I told a doc this I’d get it on my medical record… permenantly, I’d also probably get kicked out of the doctors office without any help after a prolonged lecture. It may be unethical, but that’s sadly how it is here.

Also @pault1 this won’t help but I should mention it anyway. If you exercise intensely on a regular bases (say around 10 hrs/wk) you’ll LIKELY develop some degree of LVH regardless of using AAS. Anabolic steroids just appear to greatly attentuate the hypertrophic response to training.

Finally, trestolone doesn’t actually convert to E2 thaaat much, it actually converts less than test, however the synthetic variant of E2 it converts to is 7-alpha methyl estriadol, supposedly 7-alpha methyl estriadol has a very high affinity to the ER, thus less aromitisation would give estrogenic sides. If crashed estro is the issue, abstaining from suicidal AI use should help, it’ll take some time for the body to synthesize more aromatase enzyme however it’ll happen eventually.