T Nation

Help, Please With Supplements

I really dont know anything about supplements. I usually just believe what the people at the store tell me, ive taken the general protein, and hemodilators…but now im back from my break and ive decided i want to take my sups to the next level, so far ive got protein and Meta-cel which is just the same as V12…so far thats it, im looking for advice to help me find what else i need to stack it with, ive heard somethings about glutamine and some other crap, but im just looking for direction and some set out plan…thanks

Please post your diet and workout plans, along with your goals, and current important numbers(age, height, weight, bodyfat %, max lifts, etc).

Supplements are just that, supplemental, and must be the fancy molding on a strong foundation. They are also very dependent on the other factors.

are you being f*%king serious asking this question? Go away.

Flaming trolls since '99

sorry. Biotest Grow! and Surge. Eat, lift, sleep. Wash, rinse, repeat.

quit blowing all of your money on that other shit. It’s garbage, and you know better.

(assuming you are not a troll, and just green.)

Retracting flaming statements since 5 min. ago.

[quote]slickid wrote:
i do work out very hard 5-6 days a week for about two hours
i dont get much time for cardio

Aside from supplements, you need to revamp your workouts. Two hours is a little lengthy for a workout, and 5-6 times a week is simply overtraining. Taking all that into consideration, you also don’t do much cardio? I’d call that extreme overtraining. Shorten your workouts to just over an hour and workout about 4 times a week. If you’re workouts aren’t doing anything for you, neither will your diet or supplements. Good luck Slick! :slight_smile:


thanks, i guess i never thought of that, valid point

Well, slickid, it sounds like you’re certainly on the right track in one way or another with those numbers, nice job on the hardwork it must have required.

I partially agree with Nathan though, 2 hours is a bit excessive. Testosterone levels take a nosedive after the one hour mark, so thats about the upper limit of a single workout ideally. You might consider splitting your workouts in two, on in the morning, one in the late afternoon, if you feel you need that much training. However, I disagree that the number of days(5-6) is off. 6 MIGHT be a little excessive, but you’re young, and 5 is certainly not too much. This assumes though you’re following some kind of split and not total body workouts. As long as you’re taking a full week off every 4-12 weeks, then only having 1-2 days off training, with a split during the week isn’t a bad thing.

Now, back to your original question about supplements. I think whatever your goals, the multivitamin is must as a nutritional insurance package, and the fish/flax oils are a good choice for getting the omega 3s up in the diet to their ideal levels, especially if you’re not a big fish eater.

I think after food and a multivitamin, the most important supplement is protein powder. You’ll definately want some kind of low-carb whey product for times like early morning, recipe mixing, and postworkout(if you don’t have a specific postworkout powder). I’d advise you to make sure you stay away from MRPs and weightgainer powders, along with PM proteins, and other fancy crap. Something basic that is almost all protein in the powder, is best. Biotest makes a high quality product called Grow!(choose the Low Carb variety), though I personally use a generic whey powder, which isn’t as good quality or taste, but its decent for my needs. You need to evaluate what you will be using the powder for, and then compare. You might also consider Surge, which is Biotest’s very efficient postworkout nutrition drink powder.

I would strongly recommend you pick up some ZMA when it gets back in stock here also. Its cheap and very effective.

I’m not sure what Meta-cel is, but I’m just taking a guess and thinking its a creatine product of some sort? If so, my advice is, if you’ve already bought it, go ahead and use it, creatine is good for you(cycled correctly), but, if you have not bought it yet, find yourself a cheaper, more generic form of unflavoured pure creatine. Generally, 2 months on, 2 months off, is a good protecol for cycling creatine products, though, whether you load it or not is a decision you’ll have to make after doing some research on creatine. I personally load.

Post your goals, and feel free to ask any other questions.

Best of Luck.

You should note that Meta Cel is basically creatine with citrus aurantium in it. Cy Wilson has spoken out against the latter in one of his columns.


What has been said thus far is excellent advice. Training and diet are going to comprise the most important changes you can make. However, let me redirect to the initial question.

No supplements are absolute requirements, but they make your life hundred-fold simpler, as far as getting the appropriate nutrients. If you take nothing else, take these, in order of importance:

  1. All-purpose protein powder (Biotest Low-Carb Grow!)
  2. Essential fat formula (Fish, flax, or hemp oil, or a combination of those)
  3. Post-workout formula (Biotest Surge)

If you want something that is a step beyond “essential,” consider the following:

  1. Creatine monohydrate (Plain, unflavored powder. ProLab makes a good one.)
  2. ZMA (Good mineral support formula. Biotest makes a fine, inexpensive one.)
  3. Multi-vitamin (Why is this not essential? Because they are mostly all poor formulations. The vitamin profile in Grow! is probably about as good as most of them. I use GNC’s Ultra Mega Gold w/out iron, anyways.)

Hope this helps a bit. Remember, I’m not trying to make supplementation sound overly important with respect to training and whole-food nutrition–I’m just answering the initial question, for education’s sake.


thanks guys i appreciate it

see ive been stuck in the mid 180’s for a long long time now and i would like to get up into the upper ninties in say 8 weeks…is that possible…should i get something like Alpha Male or another testosterone booster?

You said you’re 18, right? You have, probably, more Testosterone in your blood right now than most of us. At this point of your life, just add quality food and good training, and you’ll make great gains. Don’t waste your cash on that other shit, except maybe great protein and EFA’s. If you read those newsstand muscle rags, do this: take out a lighter and light one on fire. When the flames get bigger, add the rest of the mags that you still have. Run away. Never buy another one again.
(I’m guessing that the reason you want to spend your money on supplements is because you were charmed by some slick looking ad in FLEX or Muscle Media)
The basics are fine for now!!

Hit the weights hard. Look for a fitness program here if you need one.

Hit search and look for “Massive Eating Reloaded” parts one and two.

[quote]slickid wrote:
…should i get something like Alpha Male or another testosterone booster?[/quote]

Not until you are already using the six supplements that I listed previously. Plus, you are just 18. Even though elevating T levels would be a good thing, it just wouldn’t yield you the best gains for your dollar. While Alpha Male would be a good product, you will get better results spending the $49 for Alpha Male on a couple of jugs of Grow!. Besides, Alpha Male’s out-of-stock.

Order some Grow! and Surge. Then, go to Sam’s Club (if you live in the U.S.), and get a couple of jugs of fish oil (they are about $7 for 300g, and considered one of the higher quality brands of the product). Finally, go the Vitamin Shoppe or wherever, and find a good deal on some ProLab creatine monohydrate. A couple of bottles of ZMA wouldn’t hurt, either–I won’t complain too much about a product with such well-documented effectiveness in athletes that costs just over $100 per year to supplement.


you sound like you work for Grow! lol, ive got some flax oil and i eat like an elephant…what can i do to neutralize the taste of the oil in my shakes?

Yep, if you are going to choose creatine as one of your supp’s then I agree with loading it.
Secondly, what are your goals (ie- mass & strength, want to be the biggest man on the planet etc).
Like training programs, it is easier to give you advice on supplementation if you state what your goals are.
Supplements tailored to certain goal is the only way to go
Sessions of 2 hours are far too long at this stage (well really at any stage).

[quote]slickid wrote:
you sound like you work for Grow!..[/quote]

I am really just trying to convey the message that you need a protein powder moreso than any other supplement, and you should use a lot of it. I recommend Grow! because it tastes good, and it is inexpensive. I’m not meaning to make it out to be the Holy Grail.

Bottom line: You need protein!

As for the oil issue, I would probably quit trying to blend oil into my shakes. Just shoot it and chase it–painful, but quick. It beats making your entire shake taste like fermented grass (that is what flax oil reminds me of).