T Nation

Help Picking a Routine

Hey guys, first post here.

I’m having trouble on deciding what routine to do now. I have milked what i can from madcows. I have reset the program twice now after stalling and have failed to make any progress. Yes im eating enough.

Current stats:

16 y/o 5’7 185lbs
Squat: 405lbs
Bench: 270lbs
Deadlift: 495lbs

Been lifting for 18 months

My main focus is strength, dont really care about anything else.

Thanks guys

Hey man honestly you can pick anything you want that looks good. Juggernaut sheiko Smolov Cube. All of these are awsome programs.

[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
Hey man honestly you can pick anything you want that looks good. Juggernaut sheiko Smolov Cube. All of these are awsome programs.[/quote]

Don’t forget 5/3/1 and conjugate as well.

Of these, 5/3/1 is the most simple/straight forward and it works for pretty much everyone. Hell, Wendler uses it still.

I hate you

[quote]BCP27 wrote:

[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
Hey man honestly you can pick anything you want that looks good. Juggernaut sheiko Smolov Cube. All of these are awsome programs.[/quote]

Don’t forget 5/3/1 and conjugate as well.

Of these, 5/3/1 is the most simple/straight forward and it works for pretty much everyone. Hell, Wendler uses it still. [/quote]

The only gripe I have with 5/3/1 is that I have seen people say it is not for serious powerlifters. It is for people who don’t have a lot of time in the gym and don’t take powerlifting as serious as they use to be able too. Also is the slow progression it offers really necessary? I mean I know you won’t stall for a whine but it seems so slow.

[quote]bhssophomore wrote:
I hate you[/quote]

Lol what did I do?

[quote]bhssophomore wrote:
I hate you[/quote]

Me too.

I’m also a hater lol. But looks good youngin’!

[quote]Jericoe wrote:

[quote]BCP27 wrote:

[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
Hey man honestly you can pick anything you want that looks good. Juggernaut sheiko Smolov Cube. All of these are awsome programs.[/quote]

Don’t forget 5/3/1 and conjugate as well.

Of these, 5/3/1 is the most simple/straight forward and it works for pretty much everyone. Hell, Wendler uses it still. [/quote]

The only gripe I have with 5/3/1 is that I have seen people say it is not for serious powerlifters. It is for people who don’t have a lot of time in the gym and don’t take powerlifting as serious as they use to be able too. Also is the slow progression it offers really necessary? I mean I know you won’t stall for a whine but it seems so slow.

[quote]bhssophomore wrote:
I hate you[/quote]

Lol what did I do?[/quote]

I’d vote for something based on a Westside template. You’re young, but strong enough to get real benefits from it I think. Having done both 5-3-1 and Westside for a good chunk of time, I’ve found Westside has produced much better results for me personally.

A Westside-based template will require you to do some more reading first, and you’ll have to put some more thought into programming, identifying what works well for you etc. Check out the two Westside threads on this forum if you’re interested. STB put together a great overview as the top post, and then there’ an incredible amount of helpful information in the two threads. Feel free to ask any additional questions here if you might have them.

[quote]Rock978 wrote:

[quote]Jericoe wrote:

[quote]BCP27 wrote:

[quote]Umbrata Fortis wrote:
Hey man honestly you can pick anything you want that looks good. Juggernaut sheiko Smolov Cube. All of these are awsome programs.[/quote]

Don’t forget 5/3/1 and conjugate as well.

Of these, 5/3/1 is the most simple/straight forward and it works for pretty much everyone. Hell, Wendler uses it still. [/quote]

The only gripe I have with 5/3/1 is that I have seen people say it is not for serious powerlifters. It is for people who don’t have a lot of time in the gym and don’t take powerlifting as serious as they use to be able too. Also is the slow progression it offers really necessary? I mean I know you won’t stall for a whine but it seems so slow.

[quote]bhssophomore wrote:
I hate you[/quote]

Lol what did I do?[/quote]

I’d vote for something based on a Westside template. You’re young, but strong enough to get real benefits from it I think. Having done both 5-3-1 and Westside for a good chunk of time, I’ve found Westside has produced much better results for me personally.

A Westside-based template will require you to do some more reading first, and you’ll have to put some more thought into programming, identifying what works well for you etc. Check out the two Westside threads on this forum if you’re interested. STB put together a great overview as the top post, and then there’ an incredible amount of helpful information in the two threads. Feel free to ask any additional questions here if you might have them.[/quote]

Thanks ill check it out.

There is an edition of 5/3/1 specifically for powerlifting which includes off season, pre comp, and peaking programs and incorporates singles and such into training.

However, if you are willing to invest the time and effort into researching conjugate training, it could definitely do more for you faster, but remember strength is a long term gain. Sure 10 pounds a month on your squat seems slow now, but it won’t in 5 years.

Also, remember “Westside” training only happens at Westside and the conjugate system is only a template which is open to modification based on your needs. Westside tends to use a lot of bands and chains and various specialty barbells, but that’s because those modifications work well for their needs, your needs will probably be different.

Jericoe,

I would probably run 5/3/1 if i were you for a couple of reasons. First it teaches the basic fundamentals of lifting and cuts out allot of wasted time in the gym. Also, you have been lifting for 18 months, which is awesome! However it really isnt a lot of time under the bar. I personally like 5/3/1 because it makes you stay the course in the fundamental four lifts. Allot of times you can succumb to training adhd once you start lifting for a few years this also forces you stick with the meat and potatoes. I also like the condition programs that cam be ran with 5/3/1 and since you in high school and participate in sports i think this may help you as well. I add oly lifts to my 5/3/1 program as well. A couple of questions thought. What are your goals? What sports do you participate in? This will help taylor a plan to your needs.

[quote]BCP27 wrote:
Also, remember “Westside” training only happens at Westside and the conjugate system is only a template which is open to modification based on your needs. Westside tends to use a lot of bands and chains and various specialty barbells, but that’s because those modifications work well for their needs, your needs will probably be different.[/quote]

I get pretty tired of seeing this crap about “Westside” training only happens at Westside. This is akin to saying you’re only doing Sheiko if you’re over in Russia getting coaching from the man himself.

We know that no one here trains with Louie in Ohio. If they did, they wouldn’t be on here talking about it. Louie has written extensively about his philosophy in training, as much as anyone has about their preferred program/method/philosophy etc. Yes, you will need to think more about how you train when you base your training on Louie’s philosophy instead of 5-3-1 or any other program/method out there, figure out what works best for you in terms of ME variations, assistance work etc.

When someone says they are thinking about giving Westside a shot or they train Westside, we all know exactly what they mean. Stop with this bullshit, referring to “Westside” is the simplest and most convenient way to describe it. And it’s an accurate depicition.

[quote]BCP27 wrote:
There is an edition of 5/3/1 specifically for powerlifting which includes off season, pre comp, and peaking programs and incorporates singles and such into training.

However, if you are willing to invest the time and effort into researching conjugate training, it could definitely do more for you faster, but remember strength is a long term gain. Sure 10 pounds a month on your squat seems slow now, but it won’t in 5 years.

Also, remember “Westside” training only happens at Westside and the conjugate system is only a template which is open to modification based on your needs. Westside tends to use a lot of bands and chains and various specialty barbells, but that’s because those modifications work well for their needs, your needs will probably be different.[/quote]

Further to above, every lifter’s needs will be different regardless of the program they are using. Westside at least recognizes this. You’ll have to do a little more homework into figuring out which varitions work best for you. But many of the benefits of Louie’s training theories apply to all lifters:

  1. Speciality Bars. One of the big benefits of incorporating specialty bars is that they provide added variations. If you’re maxing out each week burnout is an issue. Different barbells will give you more variation. This applies to both lifters inside and outside of Ohio.

  2. Bands. Yes, they’ll overload the top of the lift and may be less helpful for a raw 300 lb bencher than they are for a shirted 800 lb bencher. But they also deal with the issue of accomodating resistance and provide accelerated eccentrics (the ba, two helpful aspects for any lifter incorporating dynamic work into their workouts.

  3. Strength is a long term game. If one method provides faster gains and has proven to do so over a sustained period of time, all the more reason to employ that method. I’m not saying Westside will provide faster gains for every lifter than 5-3-1 or any other program, but if a program provides better results, faster, and for a sustained period of time, it’s really a no brainer.

[quote]Rock978 wrote:

[quote]BCP27 wrote:
There is an edition of 5/3/1 specifically for powerlifting which includes off season, pre comp, and peaking programs and incorporates singles and such into training.

However, if you are willing to invest the time and effort into researching conjugate training, it could definitely do more for you faster, but remember strength is a long term gain. Sure 10 pounds a month on your squat seems slow now, but it won’t in 5 years.

Also, remember “Westside” training only happens at Westside and the conjugate system is only a template which is open to modification based on your needs. Westside tends to use a lot of bands and chains and various specialty barbells, but that’s because those modifications work well for their needs, your needs will probably be different.[/quote]

  1. Speciality Bars. One of the big benefits of incorporating specialty bars is that they provide added variations. If you’re maxing out each week burnout is an issue. Different barbells will give you more variation. This applies to both lifters inside and outside of Ohio.

[/quote]

It’s not CNS burnout that is the issue. I’m remembering a study went over by Paul Carter on a podcast. CNS burnout causes strength loses in all lifts, not just one. The principle clearly works somehow, but it isn’t through that particular mechanism.

here are some thoughts on powerlifting programs. proven programs that lay out just what to do are going to work. there will be no holes in the program. train hard, eat hard, recover hard and you will gain results. and now for something more specific.

5/3/1 - simplicity at its finest. it works, simple as that. the accessory work is varied greatly to fit you have not done right in the past and can change when needed while keeping the main lifts, or meat and potatoes, in place.

skeiko or smolov - higher frequency work at lower percentages. it mainly uses the idea of improving a skill by constant repetition. but be prepared to fail if you are not used to the sudden jump in frequency. dont give up. keep pushing. it may take 4-8 weeks to get used to the frequency.

westside/conjugate - one of the most difficult programs to work on yourself. one of the most difficult to understand. can produce the least results if you dont know how to program correctly and i mean simple programs as well as complex. you must understand your correct amount of frequency, volume, and intensity and understand how to properly adjust as your work capacity for each changes over time. if done correctly which it very rarely is, can produce immense gains. and by immense you may gain 50-100lbs in the first on lifts with diminishing returns after that. which is what can happen on any program if you work hard, eat hard, and rest hard.

cube - a variation on westside/conjugate that is claimed to be better for non geared lifters.

there are others. and they will all work if you follow these basic rules, work hard, eat hard, and rest hard, do conditioning, and hit your weak links hard. if you dont follow those basic rules then it doesnt matter the program as it wont help much.

you should pick the one that you believe in the most as you are most likely going to succeed with that one. pick one that has the training days you can do, like 3 or 4 or 5 days a week as you are more likely to succeed.