T Nation

Help!! Newbie 1st Cycle

Hey Guys,

I’m 29 years old and I’ve been training since I was 16. I’m 5’-9" and I went from a 140 lb. 16 yr. old to about 195 lbs (today). I was 205 lbs. in my early 20’s and would like to be able to get to that weight again and stay at it. I’ve never taken any gear before.

Here’s what I’m thinking for my first cycle:

Week 1 to 10 - 500 mg Test E/week. 250 mg on Monday and 250 mg on Thursday.
Week 1 to 10 - 1 mg Arimidex EOD
Week 11 to 13 - 10 mg Nolva/day
Week 14 to 16 - PCT starts (3 weeks after end of cycle)
Week 14 100 mg Clomid/day and 10 mg Nolva/day
week 15 & 16 50 mg Clomid/day and 10 mg Nolva/day

Any help/suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated. Now I just need to figure out what size pins to use and how to use them. Help a brother out.

THANKS!

[quote]thebadguy54 wrote:
Hey Guys,

I’m 29 years old and I’ve been training since I was 16. I’m 5’-9" and I went from a 140 lb. 16 yr. old to about 195 lbs (today). I was 205 lbs. in my early 20’s and would like to be able to get to that weight again and stay at it. I’ve never taken any gear before.

Here’s what I’m thinking for my first cycle:

Week 1 to 10 - 500 mg Test E/week. 250 mg on Monday and 250 mg on Thursday.
Week 1 to 10 - 1 mg Arimidex EOD
Week 11 to 13 - 10 mg Nolva/day
Week 14 to 16 - PCT starts (3 weeks after end of cycle)
Week 14 100 mg Clomid/day and 10 mg Nolva/day
week 15 & 16 50 mg Clomid/day and 10 mg Nolva/day

Any help/suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated. Now I just need to figure out what size pins to use and how to use them. Help a brother out.

THANKS![/quote]

looks like you have done your homework, nice preparations. as far as pins go, you could get 22 or 23 gauge, 1 1/2 inch, 3cc pins and alternate glutes and quads every week. I also am currently running 500 test E a week and pin 250mg into my quads only mon and fri with no problem. as it’s your first cycle, you might want to use more spots to let your body adapt to it. i also suggest you purchase a heating pad, as it works very well for heating the pin with the oil in it prior to injection which has helped painwise tremendously for me.

My brother is running his very first cycle currently and just so happens to be doing the same dosage w/ split injections as you are. The thing is he is about 4.5 weeks in and is JUST now starting to make some steady gains. Something for a kickstart can really be nice, and there is no need to go crazy with it. Possible tbol at 30mg e/d first 3-4 weeks or 20mg dbol? Just something to consider, my bro wishes he had done so.

Again, your layout looks good, best of luck with the cycle!!

DezZ

[quote]thebadguy54 wrote:
Hey Guys,

I’m 29 years old and I’ve been training since I was 16. I’m 5’-9" and I went from a 140 lb. 16 yr. old to about 195 lbs (today). I was 205 lbs. in my early 20’s and would like to be able to get to that weight again and stay at it. I’ve never taken any gear before.

Here’s what I’m thinking for my first cycle:

Week 1 to 10 - 500 mg Test E/week. 250 mg on Monday and 250 mg on Thursday.
Week 1 to 10 - 1 mg Arimidex EOD
Week 11 to 13 - 10 mg Nolva/day
Week 14 to 16 - PCT starts (3 weeks after end of cycle)
Week 14 100 mg Clomid/day and 10 mg Nolva/day
week 15 & 16 50 mg Clomid/day and 10 mg Nolva/day

Any help/suggestions/comments would be greatly appreciated. Now I just need to figure out what size pins to use and how to use them. Help a brother out.

THANKS![/quote]

I’m confused. Is your plan to run nolva only weeks 11-13? You seem to properly understand that the test will remain in your system for a couple weeks. But I fail to understand the purpose of 10mg of nolvadex? You really need to be closer to 40mg during your PCT and then you can scale back 30, 20, 10.
Which is to say three weeks is a bit short IMO. 4-6 weeks would be better.

Since you’re only running test, Proviron would be a great addition. 25mg ED or 50mg EOD should do it.

Opinions vary here but in terms of injections I’d say 500 once a week is fine. 250 twice a week is really just twice as many injections.

I’m confused. Is your plan to run nolva only weeks 11-13? You seem to properly understand that the test will remain in your system for a couple weeks. But I fail to understand the purpose of 10mg of nolvadex? You really need to be closer to 40mg during your PCT and then you can scale back 30, 20, 10.
Which is to say three weeks is a bit short IMO. 4-6 weeks would be better.

Opinions vary here but in terms of injections I’d say 500 once a week is fine. 250 twice a week is really just twice as many injections.[/quote]

I think hes using 10mg nolva at that point to take all preventative measures for keeping side effects at bay as he waits for the test to clear his system. b/c he runs adex only weeks 1-10 there is nothing wrong with this and even 10mg nolva is excellent at gyno prevention.

Yes 250 twice a week is twice as many but there are advantages to splitting up the dosage for more stable levels. From my experience, splitting the dosage provided better gains. Also as a newb, he will have less pain/injection problems with the lower volume of oil in each injection.

Dezz

I wouldn’t split up the injections. I would inject once a week. Test Enanthate has a half life of 10.5 days. There is no need for the second weekly injection to maintain stable blood levels on a 10.5 day half life.

But others here will disagree.

Thanks boys.

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
I wouldn’t split up the injections. I would inject once a week. Test Enanthate has a half life of 10.5 days. There is no need for the second weekly injection to maintain stable blood levels on a 10.5 day half life.

But others here will disagree.
[/quote]

I do disagree with that. Injecting enanthate twice weekly WILL cut down on sides and make for more stable blood levels. I would save the nolva for pct and start out with .5mg eod of arimidex. Run the adex up until the start of your pct. I personally shy away from clomid. I feel nolva is far superior for pct.(less sides, faster recovery) Good luck.

I agree with DC on the once weekly injections
I agree with No Mercy on the nolva better than clomid.
As far as Adex goes I don’t like to include that in the mix starting from day 1. I do advise having it ready and to use as necessary.
As aforementioned Proviron is something I do advise from day 1 or 2 since it can be used EOD just as well IMO.

Thanks again guys!

Looks like my first cycle.

Pins 23g, 1 1/2" is what I use.

Good advice to heat the test up. Works wonder for loading and injection.

I like the idea of 2X per week. It has a 1/2 life of 10days plus but it peaks at 4-5. I like the every 4 days for that reason with maybe a 1X per week taper at the end. I started 1X per week but went to 2X per week and felt better.

Split your shots bro…I wouldn’t worry about taking arimidex either…500mgs of Test won’t aromatize enough to warrant using it unless you are really prone to estrogen sides…I also thing you need to re-think your PCT a little better

Maybe this is why I’ve always preferred Cyp. That extra carbon perhaps slows the release enough to make weekly injects a viable practice.

I agree with you Mr. Shoulders… my PCT is a bit screwed up. I’ll come up with a new plan and post it before I start. Any suggestions for what to do for PCT would be appreciated!

[quote]thebadguy54 wrote:
I agree with you Mr. Shoulders… my PCT is a bit screwed up. I’ll come up with a new plan and post it before I start. Any suggestions for what to do for PCT would be appreciated![/quote]

You should be good to go with just some HCG and nolvadex for PCT

With a 10.5 day half life why would you need to inject every three or four days? You wouldn’t. If he is using quality gear, he should not be having any injection pain other than the first and second IM. There is no need to stick himself double for the same effect.

I think many of you are repeating what you’ve read and doing what you do without learning more or thinking for yourselves. 10.5 > 3

There will not be a big difference in gains or stability of blood levels. All there will be, is more chance for hurting himself with more injections and more wasted pins, swabs, and time injecting 1 cc 2x a week instead of 2cc 1x a week.

As far as cyp goes, some believe the difference in half life is as little as 8 - 12 hours. Therefore if Cyp is okay 1x a week, so is enanthate.

Absolutely correct DC. Yeah the difference between 7 vs 8 carbon probably isn’t enough to warrant bi-weekly injects. Again, nothing wrong per se with injecting half the amount twice per week. However, there is no advantage with Cyp or Enan; so again like DC says why double your pokes?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
With a 10.5 day half life why would you need to inject every three or four days? You wouldn’t. If he is using quality gear, he should not be having any injection pain other than the first and second IM. There is no need to stick himself double for the same effect. I like and respect you T in DC, you know that, but to say (or think) that because ester A has Y carbon atoms and will therefore have a halflife of Z days, and will affect EVERYONE in the same way re: blood levels, is a little nieve(sp) to say the least. Surely as a pro trainer, you wouldn’t expect to take 10 individuals, give them the exact same training and nutrition regimens and expect them to achieve the exact same results, even if you monitored them 100% to ensure complicity. Or would you? [/quote]

Of course not. This discussion is pertaining to a newbie and his first cycle. The people before were telling him the only way to do it would be to split. Originally I was only informing him of the option to inject once a week. Here on a board is not an in person basis, or even a case by case basis because none of us are fully aware of the particulars in the situation. We’re forced to speak generally. And in general, I find 1x a week for Test E works perfectly fine. I’m speaking from my own personal viewpoint, and that should be easily apparent to readers. Is this the only way to do it? Of course not.

On the same token, I deal with all of my clients on a 1 by 1 basis, one at a time, with all background, lifestyle, and other pertinent information to do the best that I can for that particular client. None of us have the ability to do this for a poster here on T-Nation. Asking me if the same workout for everybody is like asking me if Chicken Little was correct, we all know the answer to these things. But on an internet board, we are all limited to general answers.

[quote]I think many of you are repeating what you’ve read and doing what you do without learning more or thinking for yourselves. 10.5 > 3 As I understand it, you have maybe 1 or 2 cycles under your belt. I’m not flaming you, but perhaps if you got some more real-world experience, instead of relying soley on what YOU have read…
[/quote]

I’m in no position to rival your knowledge or experience in any way. I also say this up front, that I am by no means an expert. Even so, in my opinion for this new user, I think injecting 2x a week will just be compounding risk. For an experienced user, they have less risk of making a mistake and hurting themselves than a newer user.

[quote]There will not be a big difference in gains or stability of blood levels. All there will be, is more chance for hurting himself with more injections and more wasted pins, swabs, and time injecting 1 cc 2x a week instead of 2cc 1x a week. I disagree strongly with this statement. Of course, you might be right, but I think supplying the OP with ‘absolute’ statements such as this, could really compromise the efficacy of his cycle. He needs to experiment with injection frequency, and really listen to his body, to know what is optimum for him

As far as cyp goes, some believe the difference in half life is as little as 8 - 12 hours. Therefore if Cyp is okay 1x a week, so is enanthate.

As I said at the start, I like and respect you. You are intelligent and I know you have researched steroids, after all, we have shared many PMs, however I felt the need to point out some possible errors in your thinking here… Peace :)[/quote]

There are potential errors, yes. But there are potential errors in everything, because there is no guarantee from person to person. Each of us is different, and with that said, all advice given by any of us has to be more general. There is no way myself, or yourself, or any one for that matter, can know through the internet how something will work for someone. The OP himself may make up his own mind to dose whatever he wants, however he wants, regardless of what any of us will say.

I didn’t feel it was an absolute statement of fact, more just an expression of my personal opinion, which I stand by. And I respect your opinion on the matter and your dedication to improving everyone’s knowledge about the subject matter. I will keep learning from you and others for a while.

Just for clarity, had I added “In my opinion” before this statement;

“There will not be a big difference in gains or stability of blood levels. All there will be, is more chance for hurting himself with more injections and more wasted pins, swabs, and time injecting 1 cc 2x a week instead of 2cc 1x a week”

Would this discussion still have taken place?

i agree with all. However i like shooting test as often as possible just for the fact of placebo effect. i know the day i shoot my wo’s are gonna be fuckin bangin and i can puke on someone on another machine. More shots means im amped up more often. If u can spare the pins and dont mind the extra shot, split those bizzles.

I’ve decided to start off with one injection per week. If (after a week or two) I feel there is a reason to back down the dosage and split up the injections, then I will switch it to twice a week.

I picked up everything but I’m waiting until after my doctor?s appointment to start. I want to have a record of what my natural baseline blood values are so I can make sure everything is back to normal when I’m done.

Here is what I’m going with:
Week 1-10 500mg Test E / week
Week 1-13 20mg nolva/day
Week 14 5000 i.u. hCG /week &
100mg clomid/day
Week 15 50mg clomid/day
Week 16 50mg clomid/day

Feel free to critisize my PCT. It’s still a few months away so it’s not a problem to change something if needed.

Thanks for your help!