T Nation

HELP! New to TRT.. 3 Weeks In

Doc has uped my dose to 150 mg per week. no AI and no hcg… Docs in Canada tell me they don’t play a role… libido has improved alot other then that i feel basically the same

Read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
  • protocol for injections
  • thyroid basics

If a guy has thyroid and/or adrenal issues, the increased metabolic demands [good thing] can be more than the their thyroid and adrenal status can support. So I also want you to read the thyroid basics sticky and come back with iodine and body temperature info.

Get copies of your lab work and list everything here.

Before TRT you should have had LH/FSH checked. Door closed after you started TRT. This would tell us a lot.

Without your age, weight, waist, med problems and OTC and Rx drugs, we are really running blind.

Excessive urination and thirst is a sign of diabetes. What is your fasting serum glucose. And tingling in your fingers or toes?

LABs:
TT
FT
LH/FSH before TRT
if younger and LH/FSH is low, need prolactin
E2
TSH
fasting glucose
fasting cholesterol
DHEA-S
CBC
fasting cholesterol and glucose

thanks very much. today i feel much different… wired… i think its good but who knows all i know is i feel very awake… I have copies of my labs but they are different from yours as i am canadian and ours labs measure differently. i will post info but they are from different dates as i had to fight to get some tests done… when i asked to get estrodol measured the doc looked at me like an idiot and asked if i thought i was a girl, just one example…

LABs:
TT 18.0 … M; 7.6 - 31.4 nmol/L
FT/ 17.8, 24.9, 27.0, 29.0… 31.0-94.0 pmol/L
LH/ 4 … 2-9 IU/L

Estrodiol/ 128 … <157 pmol/L
TSH 1.610 … 0.35-5.00 mIU/L
prolactin/ 4 … < 18 uh/L
fsh/ 6… 2-12 IU/L
DHEA-S never measured :frowning:

fasting cholesterol cholesterol 5.09 mmol … Desired <5.20 mmol/L
fasting glucose serum/ 5.2 mmol/L … 3.6-6.0 normal fasting glucose
cbc

LEUKOCYTES 10.8… 4.0-11.0 X10^9/L
ERYTHROCYTES 4.5-6.0 X10^12/L
HEMOGLOBIN 163… 135-175 GL
HEMATOCRIT 0.470… 0.400-0.500 L
MCV 89… 80-100 FL
MCH 31.0… 27.5-33.0
MCHC 348… 310-360
RDW 11.2… LOW 11.5-14.5
PLATELETS 252… 150-400 x10^9/L
MPV 8.2… 6.2-13.4 FL
ABS NEAUTROPHIL 7.3… 2.0-7.5 x10^9/L
ABS LYMPHOCYTES 2.5 … 1.0-3.5 x10^9/L
ABS MONOCYTES 0.6… 0.0-0.8 x10^9/L
ABS EOSINOPHIL 0.3… 0.0-0.5 x10^9/L
ABS BASOPHIL 0.1… 0.0-0.2 x10^9/L
SED RATE 2 0-20 MM/HR
alt and ast are a little bit high at times

HOPE YOU CAN READ THIS :slight_smile: ANYTHING ELSE?? these results are pre trt im 34 years old…185 ilbs, 6’0, 32 inch waist… i also have a fatty liver and pancreas…

waking body temp: 96 and 96.8
mid afternoon body temp: 98.6
march 19 waking:96.7
mid afternoon: 97.8
march 20 waking 97.6 mid afternoon 97.8
friday march 26, waking 96.7 mid afternoon:97.1,97.8
I never get over 97.6 and waking is usually 96.7
never an alcoholic although i did drink a few drinks a day for a year or so when i was younger
have gained extra weight in the stomach.
I don’t take any drugs but my parents had me on Ritalin as a kid ( I HATED IT )
body hair is average I would say.
facial hair is full around go T but not full and blotchy everywhere else

Symptoms: low libido, low quality of life, depressed at times, pain in muscles and joints( mostly ribs hips hipflexor. grumpy and moody, no energy, losing muscle mass and strength, loss of confidence, slower thinking… will edit as i think of more

Are you on thyroid meds?
TSH looks a bit hyperthyroid.
You should be able to insist on FT3, FT4, TgAB, TPO, and an ultrasound.

The labs are during TRT? Is FSH 6 or .6?

thats not how i wrote the labs im sorry it squished them together… fsh 6.0 ,2-12 IU/L

before trt

any insight guys? also, no i have no tingling in hands and feet… feeling crap again today though… based on my labs should I have even started trt to begin with? I did it mostly based on symptoms and the low free testosterone. I have been in severe fatigue and feel like im not myself anymore… I do not have any info on iodine and I’m not sure how to measure it? I am going to buy a thermometer tonight so i should be able to give you body temps tomorrow. Today I am back to feeling like crap… any help would be greatly appreciated…Thanks again!!

[quote]KSman wrote:
Read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys
  • protocol for injections
  • thyroid basics

If a guy has thyroid and/or adrenal issues, the increased metabolic demands [good thing] can be more than the their thyroid and adrenal status can support. So I also want you to read the thyroid basics sticky and come back with iodine and body temperature info.

Get copies of your lab work and list everything here.

Before TRT you should have had LH/FSH checked. Door closed after you started TRT. This would tell us a lot.

Without your age, weight, waist, med problems and OTC and Rx drugs, we are really running blind.

Excessive urination and thirst is a sign of diabetes. What is your fasting serum glucose. And tingling in your fingers or toes?

LABs:
TT
FT
LH/FSH before TRT
if younger and LH/FSH is low, need prolactin
E2
TSH
fasting glucose
fasting cholesterol
DHEA-S
CBC
fasting cholesterol and glucose
[/quote

thanks for your help!!

E2 is too high. With your lower T levels, this still points to reduced ability to clear estrogens and the liver. Fatty liver is probably the cause. Until that gets resolved, you need anastrozole to lower E2 and then see if your HPTA responds with more LH and T.

Keep checking temps, you low in the AM but OK later on. You know the drill with iodine. What is your iodine intake? Read the sticky!

You should try IR.

Agree with KS.

I don’t know how effective or how helpful this may be, but milk thistle is good for your liver.
May be helpful.

Should I stay on TRT? What can I do for fatty liver? Doc just said low fat diet?? I did read the sticky :). I am taking milk thistle :)… Thanks to both of you!!
how does my HPTA react with more LH and more T? Is it not shut down???

I have started I.R although I am scared cause now I have read that to much can cause hyperthyroidism? the bottle i have is 312 mcg per drop. Each ML contains 6.25 mg potassium iodide and pure iodine. what dosage are you recommending to someone who isn’t even sure if he is deficient?

what do i do if my doc won’t do anything about E2
Also i asked to have DHT checked and he told me that’s fine but if it comes back high we are taking you off TRT.
It seems as though if T makes anything abnormal he will take me off.

I also read that this Wilson guy had his medical license revoked cause of his beliefs…true?
Is there any long term studies on HGC or AI’s when used with TRT?
Doctors here just tell me they don’t play a role.
I have no where I can test my own labs as I’m in Canada and i have been refused testing for Igf1 and other things.
Shall I get AI and hgc on my own or stick with whats prescribed?

GUYS?

Bump!!

Bump

.

What KS described is for someone who is not on TRT. High E2 causes pitutiary repression as does prolactin. If the case is secondary and E2 is high lowering E2 could normalize LH and thus T.

E2 can also bind to T receptors and block T from working.

I don’t know much about IR, but under 12.5 mg you should be safe. Were your temps low? If so you can check if they are improving and stop IR once they normalize. You also need to check if FT3 and FT4 are low.

If you can’t get AI you can get it through research chems. If you over respond to arimidex you can try aromasin.
There is also a supplement called estrosmart that can help. High dose indole 3 carbinol, calcium d glucorate, DIM, can help the liver clear E2 as well as diet modifications. Eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables and avoid soy.

I don’t know about AI studies but HCG at 250iu should be safe. You should probably get some unless you want infertility, small nuts, no endogenous T, decreased DHEA, progesterone, and prenognelone production.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/gastrointestinal/non-alcoholic-fatty-liver-disease_01.htm

The association of fatty liver disease with metabolic disorder and insulin resistance points to your hormone problems as a cause of the problem. So look to that issue for treatment.

We do not need a study to show that TRT turning off LH leads to testicular failure. So why do we need a study to show that hCG prevents that?

Wilson was probably getting to friendly to the BB crowd.

Iodine: I have said all I can say.

[quote]KSman wrote:
http://www.lef.org/protocols/gastrointestinal/non-alcoholic-fatty-liver-disease_01.htm

The association of fatty liver disease with metabolic disorder and insulin resistance points to your hormone problems as a cause of the problem. So look to that issue for treatment.

We do not need a study to show that TRT turning off LH leads to testicular failure. So why do we need a study to show that hCG prevents that?

Wilson was probably getting to friendly to the BB crowd.

Iodine: I have said all I can say.[/quote]

lol you are very vague and hard to understand… question was should i stay on TRT and should i have started trt based on my labs and info?
If you don’t want to help or you are annoyed with people why even bother?
These things do not come as easily to others and that’s why they turn to outside resources I am confused and I can’t get help from doctors and apparently asking for some advice is to much to ask…

Tunapancake thank you very much for the replies you have been helpful…

Tuna help me out man :slight_smile: