T Nation

Help Needed with First Cycle

Hey Guys,

New to the forum and was hoping to get some advice on my first cycle of dbol. Hopefully I’ll get some informative info back that could be useful. I think Im on the right track but it’s never a bad idea to get some fresh eyes one something like this.

A bit about myself.

33 this month
Ectomorph
5"9
70 - 75kg
Bf 15-16%
Haven’t been in the gym for 8 months due to shoulder injury. Before that I was on a 5x5 for the last 6 years with a break in the last year to go train as a chef abroad which made me put weight on and after the injury even more!

I’ve been doing rehab this whole time and ready to get back into the gym. I’m going to continue the 5x5 however, dropping some weight and working my way back up. Im currently already eating clean but not taking in massive calories atm. I want to work out for around 8-12 weeks first before starting my cycle. I just want my pharma to be ready before I do.

My aim:
I basically want to bulk up as I’m a hard gainer and have tried in the past with ok results but I feel I need that extra push and have basically tried everything else. I’m super cautious and don’t want to blow up massively but have a good frame work in which I can improve my physique.

The gym:

First 8-12 weeks just training on 5x5 and towards week 5/6 adding isolations, core and push/pull workouts. 5x5 - 3times a week and one extra day for areas that I need to work on.

On cycle i would be focusing on heavy 5x5 workouts and isolations.

Off cycle: 5x5 maintaining strength, core and isolations every other time.

The cycle:
4weeks
Dbol 30mg split between 3-4 times daily (10mg tabs)
Liv 52
Milk thistle
DMT blocker
I have hgh that I’ll probably take but only have enough for 3 weeks worth.

I’ll be taking other supplements as well but nothing crazy:

Multivitamins
Cla
zinc
Ala

Diet:

I’ll be in calorie surplus eating around:
140-160g of protein
270g of carbs
60g of fat
Please bear in my I work in the food industry so I’m not concerned with this as I’ll be fine and have access to great produce. This would also include foods rich in vitamins and supplements as well like shakes to get extra like beta alanine, potassium etc.

The above I’m planning to do but where I need major advice is on the pct and using ai during the cycle.

I’ve read that using a ai during the cycle can reduce water retention but I’m not too concerned about that as I’ve been told that the water lubricates your joints and helps with the workouts which I rather have.
I’m very concerned about side effects hence the DMT blocker as I think I may be prone to pattern baldness so being safe on that side.
Gyno is another one and I’ve heard that if you see signs of this then that’s when you use the ai. I don’t think the amount of dbol is insanely high so hopefully no side effects seen.

My questions are:

1.If I have to use ai during cycle due to side effects, what do I take and how much for how long?
And generally what should I do if I see side effects (apart from stopping the use of dbol)
2.What should I take for pct, what dosage and for how long?

The second question I just need clarification. I’ve heard either clomid or nolva but I don’t know which one is better and again at what dosage and for 3-4 weeks?

After the pct I want a good 4 week cleanse, continue to eat right, excercise 3-4 times a week and I will be running clen towards the end of August times to trim up a bit.

Any help or advice on the above would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Lorenzo

This ain’t it chief.

Don’t run a oral Only cycle. Especially a dbol only cycle that’s really just silly.

Figure out a proper cycle then I can give you some helpful advice. I’m not gonna advise anything or answer any questions on this cycle because it’s disastrous

Thanks for the reply, what’s so disastrous about it? I figured being my first time I should just see how my body would react. So I though running a dbol only cycle would be generally be safer.

I’m not the best when it comes to figuring out cycles unfortunately.

You’ll add some real size on dbol only. You’ll then lose most of it when you come off. It’s easy come, easy go. Nobody puts on 15+lbs of muscle in four weeks. So everything you’re gaining from the dbol is water and glycogen, which won’t stick around for very long. This is a temporary boost that will not lead to anything meaningful in the long term. Additionally, a cycle without a base of testosterone is ultimately a bad idea for a whole host of reasons.

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Look man, drop the dbol. NO ORAL ONLY CYCLES!!! yes, you might gain a lot of strength and size, but you’ll feel suppressed as shit. You always need test as a backbone for your cycle. Look into 500mg/week of Test E for 12 weeks. If you’re a hardgainer i promise you you’ll gain a shit ton of size on test alone if you eat enough. Don’t be an idiot. also, test only is healthier than an oral anyways, let alone an oral ONLY cycle. use your head man

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This won’t do anything other than maybe cause water gain.

You need testosterone dude. Nothing else. 500 mg/week divided in 2 shots

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Your on cycle bulking diet consists or 2300 calories. I lose weight on that amount of food.

Honestly, getting stronger and bigger takes time. You are 5’9" at 165 lbs. You should work towards getting stronger and bigger naturally first. I feel a lifter needs to demonstrate they can improve beyond beginner gains before considering gear. Otherwise the only answer to getting stronger is more gear.

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I get how tempting it is to jump to AAS, but please trust people here when they say do not run an oral only cycle. Dbol is an amazing compound, but it needs a test base to go with it. Without one, you will not only lose all of your gains, you will be shut down.

In my opinion, you are a hard gainer because your diet is severely lacking. Up the protein and fat. Dbol loves protein due to its nitrogen synthesis and the amount you have listed wont cut it.

Thanks for the reply, what would you suggest post cycle in order to maintain at least half the gains? To be fair I think I’d be happy with a 25% retention of gains post cycle. I find that I tend to get injured around certain weights and want to push through that barrier in terms of strength. Once I do and can maintain that strength amd my goal is continue to train hard and eat right.

Guys thanks for all the input so far it’s really opened my eyes. I’ve based a lot of stuff off forums and seems like my safer conclusion of running just dbol is is completely Incorrect.

If I took just test, how long would I need to take that without seeing side effects. That’s my biggest concern when looking at this stuff.

In terms of diet I’d just have to up the amount to as you mentioned. Not gonna lie though I will find that hard as in the past I’ve done it successfully when I gained successful weight but couldn’t keep it up for more than about 3 weeks. My job makes it harder as well. I can prep the right foods and macros but working with food you lose your appetite generally and usually have to taste what youre making. Luckily I don’t really have to but I am a pizza chef! I’d have to take a mass shake at least once a day which I know some people (including myself) don’t agree with and prefer a natural diet. I guess I just need to pack it all in quick.

So just test e for 12 weeks. No pct? Honestly bro what you’re saying sounds good and I just want to pack a bit of size and strength nothing crazy and not even for aesthetics. That will come later of course lol. But I just want to be as safe as possible. Injectables I’m not too bad with as I’ve taken hgh before and got used to it.

I wish I could bro! Honestly I’ve been trying for the last 8 years. As soon as I get to certain weights I either plateau or more commonly get injured. When I do plateau I look at my diet and maybe taking a different pre work out or upping a supolement etc. I really try to assess how I can improve naturally but hasn’t worked so far. I’ve got pre existing issues in my knees from my football days and the last injury mentioned (shoulder/rotator cuff tear) was at work so not even in the gym. I’m a bit of a hippie and prefer all the natural stuff and I’m an advocate for it but after so long I feel like this may be my only chance to push through that barrier. As mentioned I did gain muscle and size but I feel like physically I’ve hit a wall.

My bread and butter is the 5x5 which only goes up in 2.5kg increments on successful completion of the set. So I’ve been patient and will continue to take that approach but if I keep doing the same things I have in the past, I feel I won’t get any bigger. I’m all about eating right and training right, I just need another way to push past that plateau.

I think he was saying just test for 12 weeks as a cycle. Obviously you’ll need to run a pct and there’s no getting around that one.

Then find a new bread and butter. If what you’re doing isn’t working then switch it up. Go find a GVT program and do that for three months and see what the results are. I’ve added one GVT movement to my training schedule, just to target an aspect that was lagging. It’s been going well and this summer I may run the full program for a few months just to see what happens. Change is good.

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PCT as well. Look into clomid 50/50/25/25 or Nolvadex 40/40/20/20

i prefer clomid^^ that’s just me. dose an AI throughout cycle, starting at .25 Arimidex EOD. Adjust as needed. Start PCT 2 weeks after last injection.

DO NOT do that. That’s a lot of adex chances are you will need none and if you do start with that dose or less injection day and increase or do as the doctor on this forum suggests and use nolva 20mg/day

first cycle i started out with none and had way more issues and started playing a game of “catch up” on arimidex which was WAYYYY too complicated for a beginner.chances are he WILL need it. 500mg of test a week with no AI? bro wtf😂

Nolva is a much better choice for E2 management.

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i’ve heard many stories of it working tremendously! also think it is easier because it is easy to dose. It’s all up to the OP, but i think we can both agree some sort of estrogen control is needed, correct?