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Help Me please .... Review this Program

Hi all this is my plan for Aussie Footy Training.
I’m looking for some input into my plan - Diet Training etc.
[BTW Sorry it’s so long but I wanted to be Specific and clear]

I’ve been ‘out of action’ for the past 6 months and have got badly out of shape and put on quite alot of weight.
My Pre-season starts in Mid-January or early Feburary, and the season in March.
I have approxiamately 12 Weeks until Pre-season starts.
Weight - 205
BF% Estimate - 15-18%

******* Overall plan *******
Weeks 1 & 2 : Focus on fat loss Maintain strength - No Carbs -
Weeks 2 - 12 : Carbs only Post-Trg. - Develop Strength, drop a little fat slowly and gain strength.

******* Weekly Training Program *******
(Ok I’d rather do the running after weights for best fat burning but the Gym doesn’t open until 0700 and I start work at 0900)

Monday, Wednesday, Friday

  • Session 1 (0600-0700) Running, Speed and Agility Work. -
  • Session 2 (0700-0830) Gym - Strength Work, Squats, Bench P., Dead Lifts, Pulldowns, Cleans
    Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday
  • Session 1 (0600-0700) Running, Aerobic and Stamina Work, Fartlek, Long Intervals, Steady Run.
  • Session 2 (0700-0830) Gym - Flexibility Work and Auxilary Work, Bicep Curls,
    Sunday - Rest, Light Stretching

Indoor Soccer or a Light Cycle- (1900-2000) M, W, T - Indoor for 60 mins

******* Daily Diet Weeks 1 & 2 *******
0400
0430
0500 Rise
0530 ECA Stack
- Universal Animal Cuts
0600 Training - Running - 1 Hr. Approx.
0630
0700 Gym Weight Training - 1.5 Hr. Approx
0730
0800
0830 Meal [P] - PWO Drink
- Whey Protein (27 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- Vit. C (1 gm), Vit. E (67mg),
- Universal Animal Pak (just the Amino Acids)
0900
0930 Meal [P] - PWO Drink
- Casein & Whey (24 gms)
1000
1030
1100
1130 Meal [P & F]
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- 1 Flaxseed Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 ALA Cap. (30 mg)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
- CoEnzyQ10 (30 mg)
- Glucosamine Sulphate (500 mg)
- Chondroitin Sulphate (400 mg)
1200
1230
1300
1330 Meal [P & F]
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- 1 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
- Universal Animal Pak (The rest of the Minerals and Vit.s)
1400
1430
1500 ECA Stack
- Universal Animal Cuts
1530 Meal [P & F] - 1 Fish Oil Capsule - 1 CLA Cap. - 1 MSM Cap. -
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- 1 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
1600
1630
1700
1730 Meal [P & F]
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- 1 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
1800
1830 L-Carnitine (1 gm)
1900 Training - 1 Hour Approx.
1930
2000 Meal [P] - Last meal Pre Bed
- 6 Egg Whites
- Maybe some Cheddar Cheese
2030
2100
2130
2200
2230
2300
2330
0000 Meal [P] - Midnight Meal
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 250ml of Water)

******* Daily Diet Weeks 2 - 12 *******
0400
0430
0500 Rise
0530 ECA Stack
- 3 Hydroxycut
0600 Training - Running - 1 Hr. Approx.
0630
0700 Gym Weight Training - 1.5 Hr. Approx
During Workout Drink
- Whey Protein (10 gms) - Whey Isolate
- Carbs. (20 gms) - Glucose and Malto. 1:1
- 7 % Soln (in 500ml of Water)
0730
0800
0830 Meal [P] - PWO Drink 1
- Whey Protein (25 gms) - Whey Isolate
- Carbs. (50 gms) - Glucose and Malto. 1:1
- 18 % Soln (in 500ml of Water)
- Vit. C (1 gm), Vit. E (67mg),
- Universal Animal Pak (just the Amino Acids)
0900
0930 Meal [P] - PWO Drink
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
1000
1030
1100
1130 Meal [P & F]
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- 1 Flaxseed Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 ALA Cap. (30 mg)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
- CoEnzyQ10 (30 mg)
- Glucosamine Sulphate (500 mg)
- Chondroitin Sulphate (400 mg)
1200
1230
1300
1330 Meal [P & F]
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- 1 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
- Universal Animal Pak (The rest of the Minerals and Vit.s)
1400
1430
1500
1530 Meal [P & F]
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
- 1 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
1600
1630
1700
1730 Meal [P & F] -
- Fish/Chicken/Beef & Low Carb Veggies - OR Casein & Whey (24 gms)
- 1 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
- 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
- 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
1800
1830 L-Carnitine (1 gm)
1900 Training - 1 Hour Approx.
1930
2000 Meal [P] - Last meal Pre Bed
- 6 Egg Whites
- Maybe some Cheddar Cheese
2030
2100
2130
2200
2230
2300
2330
0000 Meal [P] - Midnight Meal
- Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 250ml of Water)

---- Daily Snacks
- Peak Body Pro 50 Bars - (P:C:F - 50:9.8:6.5)
- Cheddar Cheese
- Mixed Nuts, Almonds, Peanuts etc.


QUESTIONS:

What do you think?
How best to minimise catabolic effcts of this training Program?

Protein:
I think I’m getting about 171 grms of protein - is that right?
Is the 171 grms enough?
If not where do I get the rest From?

Fats:
Where do I get enough from?
I am taking 3 Fish oil Caps and 1 flaxseed cap - but that’s only 4 grms of fat isn’t it?
Sure that’s nothing.

I will just say you need to eat more food. You are drinking damn near every meal. you need more real food.

read this article again http://t-mag.com/html/body_102mrp.html I think you’re alright w/ the diet your on.

In health,

Silas C.

True Phil, I guess I just find it easier to fill up the 4 bottles of Protein and the little box of tablets and take them off to work with me. Especially for weeks 1, 2.

I guess I need to find better food options.

what i want to know is what yoiu are doing from 400-500???

in all seriousness you need to eat more “real” food. read the diets here at t-mag.

Cheers Silas and P-Dog.
The MRP diets are good, execpt for the mixing of C & F in the one go - but I’ll review the MRP diet once more.

I would suggest adding some food to your diet.

Hey, there, McGeeser! First off, one of my core nutritional values is to protect LBM while dieting. The goal should be to lose fat and to do everything possible to hold onto muscle mass. So in that vein, I’ll make the following suggestions:

Weeks 1 & 2 : Focus on fat loss Maintain strength - No Carbs

I understand that you want to blast off the fat loss portion of your program. My feelings are that if you follow the plan above, you’d be missing out on an opportunity. As a newbie (or at least someone who hasn’t trained in 6 months), you’re likely to experience some serious muscle gain when you start working out again. You’ll pack on considerably more muscle if you optimize your PWO nutrition; i.e., a liquid P+C meal (Surge) and a whole-food, starchy-carb P+C meal after that. Bottom line? TAKE IN CARBS PWO!!!

If you insist on following your original plan, read the article “Fat Fast,” and be sure to use a prohormone to protect your LBM. Just recognize that your workouts are going to suck wind in the first two weeks, due to depleted glycogen stores. Additionally, the scale weight lost will NOT be mostly fat; it will be mostly water weight.

Considering your goals and your timeline, it would be a very good idea to separate your cardio sessions and your weight lifting sessions; i.e., AM cardio and PM weights. That way you’d get two metabolic boosts and not deplete glycogen stores prior to lifting. Your workouts are going to suffer.

The 2.5 hours you’re planning on spending in the gym is a very big mistake. You’re going to end up in an overtrained state. And overtraining leads to injuries. Time in the gym, cardio or weights, should be an hour to 1.5 hours MAX. Considering that you’re training 6 days a week, your sessions should be no longer than 45 minutes.

Your selection of exercises is excellent, but don’t forget to balance out the benching with some rowing type exercises.

McGeeser, please do me a favor and use the search engine to the left of the screen and read everything you can get your hands on about nutrition and anything written by John Berardi (the Previous Issues hyperlink). You cannot, cannot do intense cardio and lift weights on an empty stomach. VERY big no-no. You’re going to break down muscle to fuel the work you’re doing. Highly catabolic.

Way too many shakes. You should have something like Surge PWO, but other than that, keep shakes to a minimum. You’ll burn more calories chewing your protein than drinking your protein.

Forget the bars, forget the shakes. You’re trying to put on quality muscle and lose fat. You need quality food and quality protein. Most protein bars are nothing more than candy bars with a little protein added in so that they can be called PROTEIN BARS. Yeah, right! (sigh)

Honestly, I’d like to see you take a look at the T-Dawg 2.0 diet. Great structure, great numbers, plenty of protein, an emphasis on good fats, limited carbs, good PWO nutrition, and the recommendation that you get the majority of your carbs from green veggie sources. It’s an awesome diet. Simple. And it’s gotten a lot of people great results.

After reading the article, if you need help running the numbers, just post here on the forum.

How best to minimise catabolic effcts of this training Program?

Overhaul the whole darn thing, McGeeser, incorporating some of the things I recommended above. You’re right that the program you have outline is highly catabolic. You’re going to lose weight, most of it muscle, and retain your fat mass. And read, read, read the archived articles on nutrition.

I think I’m getting about 171 grms of protein - is that right? Is the 171 grms enough? If not where do I get the rest From?

If you’re trying to improve your body composition (the ratio of lean to fat) and optimize your nutrition, you need to keep a food log and use a nutritional desk reference to see exactly what you’re eating. Read Shugart’s “The Missing Ingredient.”

Here’s what I eat for protein; eggs (every day! with the yolks, and I’m cutting), tuna, salmon, lamb, chicken, lean ground beef, shrimp, fish.

Fat should come from flaxseed OIL, not capsules; more cost effective. Pour it over your meat or add it to your midnight shake. It will also come from the meat you eat. Additionally, you should be eating raw nuts, walnuts and almonds, and taking in olive oil, avacados and peanut butter.

Honestly, tighten things up, back off on the workouts, read the forum, keep a food log, make adjustments, ask for help when you need it, and there isn’t any reason you can achieve your goal. A diet that is perfectly dialed in is good for about 3 body fat percentage points per month (more in the beginning, less as you get to ultra low numbers).

Just my quick thoughts on things, McGeeser. (grin)

Sorry, McG. I forgot to answer how much protein. Using 16.5% as your BF percentage (halfway between (15 and 18), you have 171 pounds of LBM. Since dieting is very catabolic by nature, I’d recommend that you get AT LEAST 1.25g-1.5g of protein per pound of LBM. That means you should be getting 35-42g of protein at every one of your six meals.

Wow - Thanks guys.

OK Tampa-Terry, I see what you mean. I guess I was trying to follow and tweak CT’s Beast program a little to suit me.

I’m off now to re-haul the program in light of those helpful comments.
I’ll make the changes and post tomorrow the revised program and mybe see if I’m getting closer to a better plan.

I’ll do the twice daily workouts like you suggest, but just one more question on that …
Can do the Strength work in the morning and the Cardio in the evening?
Reason - Gym is flooded later in the day and I can workout better in the morning - I’m a morning peroson anyway so I think it’s better for me.

Thanks again guys and hope you’ll contribute to the revised program also - Thanks!!

MCG - If you play Aussie rules you’ll like that one. I too play club footy for my local Aussie rules club. There has been some real good advice given to you so far. I’m no expert in diet but choose to do what works for me, you need to try things out. I prefer a higher food intake and inparticular carbs. If you need to lose some fat add more sprints and gpp sessions in while still lifting, Look at CT’s running man article. You should really try CW’s OSC program it really brings up your conditioning level while adding some power and strength.
If you like I also have some pre-season football articles and programs - just PM me.

Ok Guys thanks for all the help …

So on those recoomendations and some help from Terry, readings from CT, CS, JB- Here is a revised plan -

Actually - it’s nothing like the first one!!!.

I’ve tried to cut down and hope to finally get rid of the reliance on powdered protein as my protein source.
I know I have more work to do to tidy it up, but this is the way it’s going.

0500
0530
0600 Rise

  • Pre Workout [P & C] [10,5]
    0630 ECA Stack
  • Universal Animal Cuts
    0700 Gym Weight Training - 1.5 Hr. Approx
    0730 During [P & C] [10,20]
    0800
    0830 Meal [P & C] [25, 50]- PWO Drink
  • Whey Protein (25 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
  • Vit. C (1 gm),
  • Vit. E (67mg),
  • 5 gms Creatine
  • 1 gm Glutamine
  • Universal Animal Pak (just the Amino Acids)
    0900
    0930 Meal [P & F] - PWO Drink
  • 6 Fish Oil Caps or 1 Tlbspoon of Flax oil
  • Casein & Whey (24 gms)
    1000
    1030
    1100
    1130 Meal [P & F]
  • Nuts, almonds, brazil etc.
  • Cheese, Cheddar
  • 1 ALA Cap. (30 mg)
  • 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
  • CoEnzyQ10 (30 mg)
  • Glucosamine Sulphate (500 mg)
  • Chondroitin Sulphate (400 mg)
    1200
    1230
    1300
    1330 Meal [P & F]
  • Tuna & Mayo,500ml of Water [93,6,34]
  • 1 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
  • 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
  • 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
  • Universal Animal Pak (The rest of the Minerals and Vit.s)
    1400
    1430
    1500 ECA Stack
  • Universal Animal Cuts
    1530 Meal [P & F]
  • Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 500ml of Water)
  • 6 Fish Oil Capsule (1 gm)
  • 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
  • 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
    1600
    1630
    1700
    1730 Meal [P & F]
  • Chicken & Broccolli
  • Olive Oil
  • 1 CLA Cap. (1 gm)
  • 1 MSM Cap. (750 mg)
    1800
    1830 L-Carnitine (1 gm)
    1900 Training - 1 Hour Approx. Aerobic
    1930
    2000 Meal [P] - Last meal Pre Bed
  • 6 Eggs - scrambled
  • Cheddar Cheese
    2030
    2100
    2130
    2200
    2230
    2300
    2330
    0000 Meal [P] - Midnight Meal
  • Casein & Whey (24 gms) - (in 250ml of Water)

** I’ve aimed to keep the Carbs to just Pre, During and Post workout drinks.
** I’ve included more flax and fish oil fat and calories also.
** I’ll move to more flax soon, but as I have loads of fish caps to finish, I’ll use those for now.

############### Questions #################

** I’m not sure if I’m using the ECA’s properly??
Pre Exercise and one later in the day??

** How can I maximise the fat burning possibilities of the later aerobic session from a nutritional point of view?

** I’ve split the day up too, 2 sessions a day, lift in the AM and PM aerobic.
It suits me better than AM running and PM Lifting (gym full of muppets in PM) - will this a problem?

Hope to hear from you guys again soon - and thanks once more for your input …

Has anyone protocols on the use of ALA, MSM, CLA etc. as above?

Am I wise spacing them out over the day or should I opt to take them all in the one go?

Thoughts anyone?

Much better. The only thing I might mention is that u might consider changing pre WO meal to a P+F, if fat burning is high on your priorities. This will keep your body in a mode of running off of fats more going into and throughout your trainging. Just swap second post WO meal (P+F), with pre WO (P+C), this will allow for greater glycogen replenishment post WO also. Now if u are looking more for gains in size etc. then stick with the plan.

I take the CLA ALA and MSM like that rather than all in the one go because it’s like trying to swallow a bag of marbles all in the one go otherwise …

I’m not sure if they are best absorbed all in the one go or not… anyone?

Phil - thanks for the suggestions.

I take your point about the P&F meal pre am Trg - It won’t prvent or slow protein synthesis too much?
Can you give me a guideline as to the gms of fat I should use?
Just a few fish caps to kick start it?

Just another question on that …
I was planning to use the pm Trg session as both an aerobic and fat-burning session.
So therefore after the am session I hit the carbs … 3 or 4 P& F meals Later I do the running and hit the carbs once more - does that sound like a plan?
Am I optimising the fat burining capabilities of the pm aerobic session?

Thanks

As far as the post training meal, and what it contains. I can only give you examples of what I generally employ. I would also like to state that I have been using the P+F pre training with good success for a while now, and personally use it for both gaining and cutting cycles. Personally gives me the energy for an intense workout and limits my fat to lbm gains. I cant remember which article of JB’s that I read that suggested the P+F pre training, never the less thats where I got the idea.

As far as what exactly I consume. After some time experimenting with this I have found it much easier on me to keep it fairly small in quantity but dense in K/cals. This prevents having a full stomach while I am training. It is just more comfortable to me. I eat and then I 1/2 to 2 hrs later I hit the weights.

So for example I just ate 1 Tbls Flax oil (13grms), 1 whole egg, 3 egg whites, 4oz 97%lean beef, and a few Mushrooms.

This is very typical of what I consume prior to training. I always use the Oils , 4oz of some type of lean meat, and the eggs. Then a small amount of some type of veggie. It is a small meal in relation to my pwo meals. I consume the majority of my daily K/cals in the meals following training.

As far as your ? about the pm cardio. When I am on a cutting cycle using a pm cardio session I dont reload with carbs again. I stick with my P+F meals. Keeps my body burning fats. My carbs are all taken after my AM weight training/cardio. I have my PWO shake then 2 P+C meals. The first 2hrs after shake, then the second 3hrs after that.Then it is P+F the rest of the way out.

I would like to add that this is simply what has worked for me. As with all diet/training u need to experiment and find how your body reacts. This may be perfect for u also, maybe not. U just have to give things a try. Like with the PM cardio. U may need to take in carbs after if u find that not reloading glycogen effects the next days AM training session. Once again for me it seems that the PM cardio doesnt deplete my stores to a point that I need to reload in order to keep the AM intensity high. So I take advantage of the fat burning by staying with the P+F meals.

Hope this helps.
Phil

Thanks again Phil - certainly helps -

I like those ideas and I’ll try and introduce some slowly and see how they go and judge them rather than all in the one go -

I will keep the Carbs to pre am Trg and post am Weight Trg

After the pm session I’ll stick to P&F for the time being.

I’ll keep the P&C meals going pre trg for a while until I see how the P&F post pm Trg is and if that works fine I think I’ll try experimenting with the P&F pre Trg and see does that aid fat loss.

How can I use a ECA-type stack in the evening without it screwing up my sleep?
Can I only use something like L-Carnitine or CLA?

Anyone else using CLA, ALA or MSM ???

You could supplement something like biotest T2 pro at night to boost your thyriod and not disturb sleep. If you can still find it. I am not sure if they are making it anymore. (It’s good shit) I dont see it on their order page but I have seen in stores and they still have it at many of the online stores. If not, get some Coleus Forskohlii extract and possibly l-tyrosine to get the effect. I have used both variations with success during cutting cycles.