T Nation

Help Me Fix My Snatch


#1

Ok, so I would appreciate any and all assistance & advice in rectifying what I feel is a dodgy ass snatch technique I have going.

My previous problems have been having my butt way high in the starting position, and also letting the bar get a long way away from me in the 1st pull. Those two issues I think I've adjusted, but perhaps too far far on the former (is my butt too low, shoulders too far back now as I pull?)

My 3rd pull looks not quite to be getting the pop from the hips as well? I'm not sure. I'm doing my damnedest to keep my arms locked without out bend, lats tight etc.

P.S yes, your eyes do not deceive you, that is a mighty 60kg on the bar...


#2

Your final pull looks fine to me, the bar is transitioning straight up with very minimal drift out front so I really wouldn’t worry about the “pop” if you’ve got a good bar path and good explosion–many very elite lifters don’t have a “bump” from the hips in the final pull, the hips simply brush the bar. The more you bump the bar the farther it tends to drift forward exaggerating the S curve. You don’t need that if you’ve got a really straight bar path and are technically sound. Many of the Russians don’t bump the bar much at all.

Just my .02. I’ll leave the others to comment on the rest.


#3

I so wanted this to be in GAL and be a thread made by a hotty. Oh well.


#4

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
I so wanted this to be in GAL and be a thread made by a hotty. Oh well. [/quote]
That’s why I’m here. I was going to say try taping it or remodel it with Popsicle sticks. Not the snatch I was hoping for.


#5

You don’t want to ‘pop’ the bar or it will go out. You want to brush it against your thighs. Your set up has your hips quite low and you might want to raise them so your back angle looks more like this image and doesn’t change.

I could be wrong but I might see a little arm bend/pulling that might be an issue.

Hope that helps!


#6

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Your final pull looks fine to me, the bar is transitioning straight up with very minimal drift out front so I really wouldn’t worry about the “pop” if you’ve got a good bar path and good explosion–many very elite lifters don’t have a “bump” from the hips in the final pull, the hips simply brush the bar. The more you bump the bar the farther it tends to drift forward exaggerating the S curve. You don’t need that if you’ve got a really straight bar path and are technically sound. Many of the Russians don’t bump the bar much at all.

Just my .02. I’ll leave the others to comment on the rest.[/quote]

Thanks Aragorn. I’m working on this by myself, so this kind of feedback is invaluable to me. I think my explosion is a little sluggish, especially when looking at guys like Dimmas, or Zlatan Vanev of Bulgaria. Those guys really exploded hard. If I really extend my hips and arch back hard like them, I seem to lose the lift behind . Perhaps my timing on that is bung.

I feel pretty slow getting under the bar too. Am I jumping too much? would this make it harder for me to pull myself effectively under the bar, fast and low?


#7

[quote]debraD wrote:
You don’t want to ‘pop’ the bar or it will go out. You want to brush it against your thighs. Your set up has your hips quite low and you might want to raise them so your back angle looks more like this image and doesn’t change.

I could be wrong but I might see a little arm bend/pulling that might be an issue.

Hope that helps![/quote]

Thanks DebraD. Yeah, I see my hips pretty low and I’m not quite over the bar. I had the opposite problem before, so now I guess I gotta find the middle ground. I’ll go do some work on it and post another video.

Yeah, I see what looks like a slight arm bend too, even though I’m making the biggest effort to keep the elbows dead straight. I’ll work on that. Thanks for the input!


#8

[quote]Nick_D wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Your final pull looks fine to me, the bar is transitioning straight up with very minimal drift out front so I really wouldn’t worry about the “pop” if you’ve got a good bar path and good explosion–many very elite lifters don’t have a “bump” from the hips in the final pull, the hips simply brush the bar. The more you bump the bar the farther it tends to drift forward exaggerating the S curve. You don’t need that if you’ve got a really straight bar path and are technically sound. Many of the Russians don’t bump the bar much at all.

Just my .02. I’ll leave the others to comment on the rest.[/quote]

Thanks Aragorn. I’m working on this by myself, so this kind of feedback is invaluable to me. I think my explosion is a little sluggish, especially when looking at guys like Dimmas, or Zlatan Vanev of Bulgaria. Those guys really exploded hard. If I really extend my hips and arch back hard like them, I seem to lose the lift behind . Perhaps my timing on that is bung.[/quote]

You lose the bar behind you because it swing outwards in a pendulum fashion. This means that it’s not coming straight up to you, it’s coming up and back IN TOWARDS YOU, which means it is causing you to miss because the bar is tracing a semi circle, up, away, back towards you. This is exactly what I was just talking about with the S curve being exaggerated and creating problems: it’s a primary symptom.

If you look at Dimas the bar does NOT go out front. The bar path is very much mostly straight up–he is exploding but doing it properly. Certain other lifters don’t even arch that much–many of the Russian greats don’t arch back much at all, but they get a very straight bar path.

The key is straight bar path–arch or no arch you still have to have it.

Yes you are a bit slow under the bar. Yes, you are jumping too much. The goal is not the jump–you don’t even have to get all the way on your toes, as proven by some of the elite (although most do)–the goal is explosion. You might be slow under the bar because you are trying to milk the explosion for more power, but it won’t work because the bar is already moving–you’re losing time to get under the bar. You get one shot to power the bar up–after that any more pulling on it won’t help it will only slow your progress down because you won’t be down in time to receive.

Right now your explosion is fine, you’re just trying to get more and more out of it when you can’t. Spending all that time in the air makes your explosion feel much more sluggish than it is.

So: straighter bar path, and make ONE decisive fast pull and then get under…don’t try to milk more out of it by jumping or staying up there.


#9

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Nick_D wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Your final pull looks fine to me, the bar is transitioning straight up with very minimal drift out front so I really wouldn’t worry about the “pop” if you’ve got a good bar path and good explosion–many very elite lifters don’t have a “bump” from the hips in the final pull, the hips simply brush the bar. The more you bump the bar the farther it tends to drift forward exaggerating the S curve. You don’t need that if you’ve got a really straight bar path and are technically sound. Many of the Russians don’t bump the bar much at all.

Just my .02. I’ll leave the others to comment on the rest.[/quote]

Thanks Aragorn. I’m working on this by myself, so this kind of feedback is invaluable to me. I think my explosion is a little sluggish, especially when looking at guys like Dimmas, or Zlatan Vanev of Bulgaria. Those guys really exploded hard. If I really extend my hips and arch back hard like them, I seem to lose the lift behind . Perhaps my timing on that is bung.[/quote]

You lose the bar behind you because it swing outwards in a pendulum fashion. This means that it’s not coming straight up to you, it’s coming up and back IN TOWARDS YOU, which means it is causing you to miss because the bar is tracing a semi circle, up, away, back towards you. This is exactly what I was just talking about with the S curve being exaggerated and creating problems: it’s a primary symptom.

If you look at Dimas the bar does NOT go out front. The bar path is very much mostly straight up–he is exploding but doing it properly. Certain other lifters don’t even arch that much–many of the Russian greats don’t arch back much at all, but they get a very straight bar path.

The key is straight bar path–arch or no arch you still have to have it.

Yes you are a bit slow under the bar. Yes, you are jumping too much. The goal is not the jump–you don’t even have to get all the way on your toes, as proven by some of the elite (although most do)–the goal is explosion. You might be slow under the bar because you are trying to milk the explosion for more power, but it won’t work because the bar is already moving–you’re losing time to get under the bar. You get one shot to power the bar up–after that any more pulling on it won’t help it will only slow your progress down because you won’t be down in time to receive.

Right now your explosion is fine, you’re just trying to get more and more out of it when you can’t. Spending all that time in the air makes your explosion feel much more sluggish than it is.

So: straighter bar path, and make ONE decisive fast pull and then get under…don’t try to milk more out of it by jumping or staying up there.[/quote]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback man.

I’ve stripped the weight off to really try and fix my technique. Seems the jumping thing is pretty ingrained. Back to the old drawing board I guess. I’ll work at it until I have the new motor patterns happening and post again to see how I’m fairing.

I understand the straight bar path concept (after 3rd pull, and how that is obviously the most efficient way to make the lift. So what’s the deal with guys (A class dudes) like Boevski who land way back from where they pulled? I guess they naturally compensate somehow when they land to neutralise the backwards momentum ?


#10

[quote]Nick_D wrote:

I understand the straight bar path concept (after 3rd pull, and how that is obviously the most efficient way to make the lift. So what’s the deal with guys (A class dudes) like Boevski who land way back from where they pulled? I guess they naturally compensate somehow when they land to neutralise the backwards momentum ?[/quote]

Hopefully you can see this video but you probably have to be logged onto facebook.

When you look at a lot of the top lifters you notice lots of quirks and technique that are unique for the lifters but don’t get too hung up on the outliers unless they share some anatomical proportions with yourself. There is a generic good technique which is optimal assuming regular proportions and then there is the reality applied by experienced lifters that works for them. The bar path is still much the same across the board however. You should still aim for the textbook technique until you get experienced enough to deviate or have an experienced coach direct you that way.

I don’t have a coach and I get contradicting advice often (and this is something that I struggle with) Don’t jump back! Jumping back is ok as long as you don’t miss! Finish straight! No, lean back more when you finish! So ultimately you will have to judge what criticisms to address and what not to, but as a new lifter you shouldn’t be on the extremes of good technique.

IMO Jumping back a little bit is fine but jumping back a lot might be a problem. I jump back on my cleans and go farther and farther as the lift gets heavier. My jerk is so weak that I don’t get heavy enough on my clean to get to a point where I can’t make the clean but it will become a problem that I have to correct.

Similarly I jump back quite a bit on the snatch when it gets heavy and my feel never land straight or beneath me and I miss out front or fall onto my knees.

Jumping forward is not good. getting a lot of air time is energy that isn’t going into the lift. In my case lots of air times means poor foot positioning when I land. You might find that the weight is too light right now for you to lose the lift because of jumping too much or poor foot positioning.

I can’t see your foot positioning when you start but they should be about shoulder width apart and they should land wider in your bottom position. But again you will find people who start wider and it works for them.

There’s a drill that is recommended by some (but a coach I know cringes at it because he believes it’s going to ingrain bad foot movement habits so ymmv ;)) is no-feet snatches. It probably has other names. If you can’t get rid of the jumping you could try it. basically it’s snatching without moving or lifting your feet.

Also, don’t forget that the A session world’s dudes are freaks and unless you’re a freak too, you probably cannot copy their quirks :slight_smile:


#11

I think the jumping issue is also caused by over pulling. I used to have the jump, and then my legs and feet would “star fish” as they call it. What I did was drop down the weight to something light and did what debra talks about - the no feet snatch. And in the process of doing no feet snatches, lessening the force of the pull, I also focused on catching the bar lower. Once the bar hit my navel level that was the cue to move into the catch position, while still pulling of course.

For me, getting rid of the jump was a few weeks of focused practice since I was so used to doing it. My heels do lift up off the platform, but I’m not actually going into a full “jump” off the floor.

The only reason I even started jumping was because I was reading misinformation on forums etc. and not following actual coaches. I can’t afford to hire a coach, and Oly lifting here in Hawaii is like a hidden secret so finding a coach is even that much harder. But be careful where you read and take you advice from.

I like Wil Flemmings blog, pretty good information on there. And of course Glen Pendlay is always a no brainer.