Help Me Decide: Winny or Tren?

Hi, which is better: Winny or Tren? In terms of side effects, lean bulking/recomp, fat loss, vascularity, water retention, hardening, dry gains, etc

I’ve finally narrowed down my choices to two to add to my next cycle (with Test): Winny and Tren. My stats: 31 years old, 5’8”, 170 lbs, bf probably 15-20%. Goal is to bulk up a lil’ bit more & get my bf% down. The muscles I’ve ganied off-cycle also look soft.

I’ve already done tren. I got the leanest I had ever been (below 10% bf). Sides were kinda bad during the first few weeks—I had the dreaded tren cough twice lol.

Please just be helpful and make a comparison between the two. Thanks in advance!

If you are not making money, the order would be:

  1. Nothing
  2. Winny
  3. Tren

I cant understand your goals, nor how do you plan to achieve them, and i also dont think your stats qualify for any of the drugs so i will just respond to the question about these 2 drugs according to MY goals and experience, me being 250+lbs with a full six pack :

Winny and Tren ar two my all time favourite drugs and the best thing in the world is to take both.
Test as base, tren as a builder and winny as oral. If im already lean, Winny would pop my abs in a week. Tren gives the tren look, and combined its just epic strenght with leanness, provided you are lean. At 20% probably you wont get the cosmetic benefits so if id had to chose, id pick tren of course.
For me, i see winny as a strenght tool with cosmetic benefits. Tren for me is just the regular steroid i like being on.
You can bulk on tren, you can cut on tren(be ready to get low blood sugar sides tho) and you can do whatever on tren. When cut goes long and i start feeling week, adding Winny will cut me up visually a bit more and kick my strenght up so i wont feel so weak since my primary goal is strenght.

I love winny but test AND winny IMO would be a shit cycle - just test and some oral, imo wont do much. I like how @RT_Nomad always said - test as a base then add an injectable and an oral. Nowdays i stick to this principle also, so just having a test and an oral IMO would not be as epic, so id do test and tren for sure.
If i wanna cut, id do test and tren for long enough to cut and then add winny when i am lean and start to feel weak.

The problem with doing just test and an oral is also in the fact that you shouldnt be on orals for too long, but if looking for BIG changes, 8-12week cycle probably wont cut it.
Unless experimenting with short blasts, which also need to include high doses of GH, slin, igf and sarms, i no longer believe something actually noticable can be achieved in 12 weeks as it will take like 4-5 weeks for just test to be high enough and in 3-5 weeks your drop the winny and stay on test? At least for me, 1 gram of test doesnt even give sides…not even an erotic dreams, not even a bloat even if i dont take AI. Maybe im a shit responder to test, idk. But tren in 3-4 weeks is visually noticable, so in my experience - test doesnt do much and test + oral is just a weird cycle that cant last… again, keep in mind i am probably like 70lbs of lean muscle bigger than you, so my experience might not be equal to what you would need.

p.s - tren ace gives me caugh like 50% of the time, tren E - almost never… so i stick to enanthate, but then your blast needs to be longer as it takes a while to do something, and if you reach the best levels at week 4, and then jump off at week 8, you can understand that not much can be done in 4 weeks.

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Didn’t you already get your answers in this thread?

TL;DR: You don’t need drugs and never did. If you insist on poisoning yourself for gains in the natty realm, at least wait on the tren until you cut.

I assume by your posting of yet another thread about this, means that you’re going to ignore any and all advice until you hear what you want to hear.

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Can someone describe “teen cough”?

What causes it to start, if you can tell?
How long does it last?
Is it intermittent or continuous?

Haven’t had it myself, but a buddy has gotten it with Tren. I believe it is possible to get with other AAS as well, just very unlikely.

It is basically coughing your lungs out for 30 minutes shortly after an injection. I think it often also has vomiting, but that is only for the people out there like me who can induce vomiting from coughing too much or violently.

This I have had a few times, whether it was tren or any other AAS. After injection I got an irresistible cough within seconds. It has been my thought that some of the substance got absorbed into a vein and taken directly back to my heart and then to my lungs, which caused the cough. It usually only lasted 5 or so minutes for me.

My initial thought when it happened is that I wasted some of the AAS. It is just my thought. I never looked into it.

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We let’s start with pulmonary oil embolism which could theoretically happen with any injectable oil based AAS in injected partially into vein:

Next I would look to see if there’s anything particular about tren that differentiates it from other AAS in terms of the chronic anecdotal reports of “tren cough”.

I wonder if FES (see discussion) may explain many of these reports? Poor injecton technique and/or fatty acid irritation in the lungs over time.

The present report is the first to describe a case of pulmonary oil embolism following accidental intravascular injection of an oil-steroid solution. Acute lung injury and respiratory distress following intravascular introduction of oil is uncommon and has only been described in a small number of case reports (16). The pathophysiology underlying this phenomenon is postulated to be similar to that observed with the more extensively studied fat embolism syndrome (FES). Although the precise mechanism by which intravascularization of lipid emboli leads to the clinical features of FES has yet to be completely described, two theories have been proposed to explain the pulmonary dysfunction that occurs.

The mechanical theory postulates that fat emboli become physiologically lodged in the pulmonary capillaries, resulting in a ventilation-perfusion mismatch. Alternatively, the biochemical theory suggests that hormonal changes induce the systemic release of free fatty acids that are toxic to pneumocytes and the capillary endothelium of the lung, causing interstitial hemorrhage, edema and chemical pneumonitis (7). A symptom-free period precedes the development of clinical features, suggesting that the formation of toxic biochemicals is necessary for the clinical syndrome to develop. The mechanical and biochemical theories are not mutually exclusive and the clinical picture associated with pulmonary oil embolism likely results from several physiological processes.

FES is characterized by an initial asymptomatic latent period following introduction of lipid emboli into the systemic circulation, with subsequent development of ventilation-perfusion mismatch and toxic insult to pneumocytes and capillary endothelial cells resulting in dyspnea, tachypnea and hypoxia within 12 h to 72h after lipid embolization (7). The clinical presentation of FES is highly variable, ranging from asymptomatic to mild respiratory distress, hypoxia and non-productive cough, to the life-threatening triad of FES consisting of respiratory difficulty, petechial hemorrhages and neurological changes. The classic triad of FES is relatively uncommon, occurring in only 3% to 4% of cases despite the relatively high incidence of fat emboli following long bone fractures (greater than 90%) (810). The relatively low incidence of symptomatic events following intravascular introduction of lipid emboli suggests that the majority of cases of lipid embolization are not clinically relevant and go undetected.

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Exactly. I have had this also with other drugs if inject in quads. But tren ace does this almost every time. And yes, its like 2-3mins of brutal caugh, sometimes sweatting like crazy also. Since ace is supposed to be injected before training i sometimes after the caugh went to bed for 20mins to rest, haha.

I have heard of people getting it with Nandralone and also very rare occurrences of it with Test.

“Trenbolone acetate also has the ability to increase red blood cell count. With a larger amount of red blood cells, blood oxygenation is enhanced.”
“Similar to many other AAS, trenbolone acetate has the capability to produce insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1)… The facilitation of IGF-1 plays a significant role in the functions and properties of the central nervous system, pulmonary system, muscle tissue, ligaments, cartilage, and tendons. IGF-1 is only promoted by a few AAS, with trenbolone acetate being one of the best promoters.”

Looks like “tren cough” is likely from a multitude of factors that all dogpile the pulmonary system, but this is speculation merely from armchair research. Is also possible to happen from other AAS according to this, though likely not quite as significant.

@RT_Nomad

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Thank you @chimichangadeadpool11 your threads become really nice inadvertant discussions of the relevant literature and harm minimization.

:+1:

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Appears the quotations above are Wikipedia with some original citations there?

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Yessir.

I think we’re past the point of not trusting wikipedia for relative scientific literature. No one is going in there and altering shit for fun when it doxxes your own IP address from doing so lol.
The early 2000’s are over

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UpToDate: Fat embolism syndrome

Metabolic Functions of the Pulmonary Circulation

image

I wasn’t knocking using it I was confirming where the quotations came from. Thanks.

Another section there on “Tren Cough”.

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That reminds me, whoops I better make sure that VPN is on.

Uh oh. Thanks.

Neither, just do test only again. If it worked once, it’ll work again

I only had it once. Just an insane fit of coughing, little difficulty catching my breathe. I think it may have something to do with injecting the oil into a vein, but don’t know why Tren got the blame.

It is much more often with tren and much harder. No one really knows why.

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