T Nation

Help: Low Test 11 wks After 1st Cycle


#1

Hi all,

This is my first post on here. Thanks in advance for any help.

Stats:

Age:26
Height: 6'5
Weight: 258 LBS
Body Fat: Guessing around 15%

Background information (sorry for length)

I have been working out since 16 years old or for the past 10 yrs of my life - more seriously getting into training in my 20s. I had never done a single steroid in my life until recently. Naturally I have usually been one of the strongest guys in the gym. I did not need steroids for size gain as I was 245lbs before even doing my first cycle.

I had achieved an over 400lb raw bench 100% natural. As you can Imagine I have been around guys juicing for the better part of 5 years and as such have been tempted to try some gear - but always wanted to wait til I got older - as I was told by multiple people to wait until at least 25 yrs old before doing anything.

I got a new desk job (had always worked in the field doing construction) and about a year into this new job I just felt like I had slowed down and gained unwanted weight. Went from 225-230 to 245 in a years time. I did not have the same energy level, my work outs slowed down, sex drive had slowed, everything just felt slower I guess. I decided to do my first cycle for these reasons - more to get back a certain energy level.

A lot of guys in the gym swear it makes you feel like 16 again - all the other stuff as far as I was concerned which just bonus points. So without doing a ton of research online and just going with the bodybuilders I worked out with said I bought my first gear.

The cycle I did:

Test Enan - injected 250mg 2x week for 10 weeks.

That is it. I was told to get some Nolvadex just "in-case" I developed any symptoms. I was a firm believer in doing just a clean mild test only cycle for my first one to see how my body reacted to it and therefore if there were side effects I was not guessing at what caused what. I did not have any bad side effects while on cycle, therefore did not even use the Nolva.

PCT - well after all the reading I have done on the web this is getting to the main point of my post. I did none. I was told if I felt fine to just roll with it - if I started feeling lethargic or emotional, whatever, to start taking a pill 20mg a day as needed. Please guys I am not looking to get flamed or for people to talk crap - I realize I should have done some more research myself.

However I trusted the guy I was talking to - he is a professional body builder and seemed to know a ton on this stuff...however he is also very old school in his 40s along with most the other guys in my gym. I believe there is a pretty big difference/disconnect between a lot of the guys you talk to about this in the gym and the guys who get on the internet and post up.

Now to get to my main problem...

It has now been roughly 11 weeks since my last pin and I went to have my blood work done. Main reason was bc I have never had it done before and my doctor told me I should do it. Originally he didn't even order for testosterone - but more for curiosity I asked him to add it on and told him low levels ran in my family which is a true statement.

The results came back and my test level was 357. At my age I believe I should be between 600-700. Those are the only results I have regarding the test levels for right now - I have not had a follow up with the doc yet - just read the results online. I have gone back to a lower energy level, but that is the reason I went on to begin with. My sex drive has gone down but I have no problems getting or maintaining an erection. I do feel somewhat depressed and do struggle with anxiety - but again these were all reasons I decided I wanted to give a cycle a go. I do not feel worse than I did before I started.

This obviously has me worried - I am walking around with the test level of a healthy 90 yr old. Could the first cycle I have ever done with a little to no PCT cause this much of an impact with my natural test?

I am not sure if I should tell my doctor about my first and only cycle - but feel I should so either him or the Endo I will hopefully go see will design treatment around possibly kick starting my natural test rather than hormone treatment. However, if you all feel like the mild cycle I ran should not have had this effect regardless of my lack of PCT, and that my levels were most likely low to begin with - I will leave out the part about doing steroids when I meet with my doctor.

Thank you all so much in advance. Again Flammers please don't bother posting up. I know I messed up - don't need any smart ass comments - please educated information only.


#2

Moderators - not sure if I picked the right section for this to go in. As I am new to the site if you feel this would be better received in a different section please move the post. Thank you.


#3

Do not rely on an endo to design a kickstart protocol instead of hromone therapy…they are mindnumbingly useless in this area, unfortunately.

YOu say you dont feel any different now than before you started your cycle. That makes things a bit trickier. Hard to identify what could have been your issue before, or if you are even having issues now.

I recommend you go get a full T panel to include LH, FSH, Free T, and E2. If LH/FSH are low, then attempt a PCT (which is basically what you referred to as an endo kickstart). If other issues, we can address later.


#4

Yea I am really kicking myself for not getting the tests done before so I had a reference point. My energy levels felt low before which is the main reason why I went on. Had a relatively normal sex drive I have been in a long term relationship so its not like it was when I was 18 and single…but I just thought that was normal. I have had no luck at fat loss.

I can put weight on no problem all it takes is me eating as much as I would like to and taking a week of from the gym. It is much much harder getting rid of fat.

Anyway I agree I need a full panel done. Regarding the doc - do you think I should be upfront or if they are useless in this area just use him to get the tests ordered and once have results take it into my own hands?


#5

Depends on the doc really…I would err on the side of being more forth coming though.


#6

Doctor just e-mailed me. According to him my levels are “normal” - I will push when I see him that I want to see a specialist of some sort. What a joke. In the mean time I have a bunch of Nolvadex left - do you think I should start taking it or at this point would I be looking at something else as far as PCT?


#7

I would not start screwing around with potential solutions before determining the cause…you need bloodwork to determine this.


#8

I am by no means an authority on the ins and outs of AAS, but I have been reading up on it for the past two years or so, so take my advice with a grain of salt if you please:

At 11 weeks from your cycle, and no PCT done at all, It’s not surprising that you still have low testosterone levels. The very few literature that exist on steroid abuse seem to suggest that it takes about 20 weeks for testosterone levels to return to their baseline (pre cycle) values.

If I were you, I’d try to acquire HCG and nolvadex and/or clomiphene and take a look at doing the PoWeR PCT - a quick google search should get you plenty of links, AFAIK it’s the only clinically trialled PCT program. That may not mean much in and of itself, but the results are impressive.


#9

My plan for now is to get a full panel done see what’s up. I might wait another 3 months and do it again to see if anything changes. Will take it from there. Thanks guys


#10

Full panel done results below:

Testosterone 526 ng/dl
Estradiol less than 25 pg/ml
LH 2.9 mlU/ml
FSH 4.7 mlU/ml
Free T 1.33 ng/dl

Doc wants me to go on 1500 iu HCG 3x week … Thoughts?


#11

Are you still experiencing symptoms? Your bloodwork looks mostly good.


#12

Getting better still not 100%


#13

[quote]Rob4404 wrote:
Full panel done results below:

Testosterone 526 ng/dl
Estradiol less than 25 pg/ml
LH 2.9 mlU/ml
FSH 4.7 mlU/ml
Free T 1.33 ng/dl

Doc wants me to go on 1500 iu HCG 3x week … Thoughts?[/quote]

Don’t take the HCG. It will set you back. Why shut yourself down again with HCG now that you are almost recovered? Your testosterone is pretty good already and the trend is upwards. You are already recovering rapidly. It takes up to 6 months to recover naturally. Your first bloodwork was a little lowish, but at that point you had only been recovering for about 6-8 weeks (taking into account a few weeks for the high dose exogenous testosterone to clear your system).

Also, those are hugely excessive doses of HCG and will desensitize your testicles to your natural luteinizing hormone signals. It will leave you worse off than before. In fact, too high doses of HCG can cause some of the testosterone-producing cells in your testicles to die off (high doses of HCG is in fact used in animal studies for the very purposes of killing Leydig cells in the testicles). The appropriate testicle-preserving dose for someone who needs HCG (which is not you, you don’t need it) is only about 250 mg three times a week - that doctor of yours is WAY off the mark.


#14

I like you started training young,I didn’t start useing aas till i was 35 i started with d-bol i was 160lbs 5’4 that put on alot of size and i felt great in the begining,but lack of knowledge got the best of me. I never pct and stayed on for to long. I had no gyno problems,but started feeling weak and tired so then i went on test felt good for awhile then crappy again,so then i learned more about pct and clomid seemed to help. I did my first pct then went back on test dumb. I way 200lbs now at 5’4, i have an endo now but i’m not sure he knows much i told him straight up what i’ve been on.I going for a full battery of tests next month to find out why i am so fautiged This year being the worst it’s effected my training big time. It looks like a long time till i get back to normal again. I know d-bol is hard on your liver and even though i was taking liv-52 all during it i’m sure it still does damage.Through mistakes you learn but when it comes to your health you can’t mess around till you know how,luckily you new when to quit i was a kuckelhead so i don’t need nooneto tell me that. I hate to have to give up training till i get back to normal but noone been able to help me in my situation.