Help Designing a Full Body Workout

First off, I’m not a beginner. I’ve read a few articles on this site for a while but did not join until now. Anyway, I’ve been lifting for six years now, and here are my stats (approximately):
Height: 5’9
Weight: 160
Bench: 265
Squat: 345
Dead: 315
Row: 215
Incline: 235

I have come to like full body workouts a lot better than splits (even upper/lower) because it feels as if I’m doing more. I’ve been quite successful with Starr’s 5x5, but I’m not an athlete anymore and squatting three times a week just causes me to lose motivation to keep up with the workout (lifting becomes a burden as opposed to something enjoyable). So I tried to come up with a comparable full body workout.

A:
Squats 5x5
Incline 5x5
Rows 5x5
Decline Close Grip Bench 4x8
Curls 4x8

B:
Deadlift 5x5
Bench 5x5
Pullups 4x10
Military 5x5 (or 4x8…can’t decide)
Weighted Sit-ups 4x15

How does that look? I would do it 3 times a week…ABA, then BAB next week.

Also, do you guys think that 5x5 ramping is a good approach to a workout like this? Or should I switch it up? I guess that the main advantage is that the last set is way heavier than straight sets, but the first three sets feel like nothing sometimes.

Any advice will be appreciated. Or if you think I’d be better off with a proven full body workout, let me know and why (as I said though, I don’t think I want to go back to Starr’s).

What is your current goal?

Well I originally wanted to cut. But every time I try to cut I just end up setting myself back 3 months and I lose strength and muscle. So I decided to keep bulking since it’s not like I compete. So I’m gonna try to put on more mass while eating as clean as possible to try and stay somewhat lean.

What you put together looks good, simple enough. The only thing I would change is instead of the 5X5 parameters, do 8X3 on “A”, then 3X8 on “B”, followed by 8X4 and 3X9 on the second week and back to 8X3 and 3X8 on the third week, but up your weights.

After that 3-week cycle, switch it to do 3X8 on “A” and 8X3 on “B” to avoid imbalances and then follow the same weekly parameters. If you see progress and you’re still liking it after those initial six weeks, change the exercises and start over.

Good luck!

[quote]BadgerDave wrote:
First off, I’m not a beginner. I’ve read a few articles on this site for a while but did not join until now. Anyway, I’ve been lifting for six years now, and here are my stats (approximately):
Height: 5’9
Weight: 160
Bench: 265
Squat: 345
Dead: 315
Row: 215
Incline: 235

I have come to like full body workouts a lot better than splits (even upper/lower) because it feels as if I’m doing more. I’ve been quite successful with Starr’s 5x5, but I’m not an athlete anymore and squatting three times a week just causes me to lose motivation to keep up with the workout (lifting becomes a burden as opposed to something enjoyable). So I tried to come up with a comparable full body workout.

A:
Squats 5x5
Incline 5x5
Rows 5x5
Decline Close Grip Bench 4x8
Curls 4x8

B:
Deadlift 5x5
Bench 5x5
Pullups 4x10
Military 5x5 (or 4x8…can’t decide)
Weighted Sit-ups 4x15

How does that look? I would do it 3 times a week…ABA, then BAB next week.

Also, do you guys think that 5x5 ramping is a good approach to a workout like this? Or should I switch it up? I guess that the main advantage is that the last set is way heavier than straight sets, but the first three sets feel like nothing sometimes.

Any advice will be appreciated. Or if you think I’d be better off with a proven full body workout, let me know and why (as I said though, I don’t think I want to go back to Starr’s).[/quote]

I really think it’s very counter-productive to try to “cut” while training like this, you need all the calories and energy to be dealing with bouts of compound movements every time you step into the gym. You didn’t mentioned what bodyfat % you’re at, but if it’s not too much, don’t worry about it, make sure your at a calorie surplus, lift with intensity, build some more muscle and then later on you can switch to a fat-burning phase if you choose to.

[quote]BadgerDave wrote:
Well I originally wanted to cut. But every time I try to cut I just end up setting myself back 3 months and I lose strength and muscle. So I decided to keep bulking since it’s not like I compete. So I’m gonna try to put on more mass while eating as clean as possible to try and stay somewhat lean.[/quote]

[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
I really think it’s very counter-productive to try to “cut” while training like this, you need all the calories and energy to be dealing with bouts of compound movements every time you step into the gym. You didn’t mentioned what bodyfat % you’re at, but if it’s not too much, don’t worry about it, make sure your at a calorie surplus, lift with intensity, build some more muscle and then later on you can switch to a fat-burning phase if you choose to.

BadgerDave wrote:
Well I originally wanted to cut. But every time I try to cut I just end up setting myself back 3 months and I lose strength and muscle. So I decided to keep bulking since it’s not like I compete. So I’m gonna try to put on more mass while eating as clean as possible to try and stay somewhat lean.

[/quote]

Well I’m assuming I’m at around 13% since I can see some abs (top two rows), but can’t see the the middle line…and I remember some article I read here says you can see the middle line at 9.8% and top abs at 15%.

But yea I gave up on cutting because I don’t want to sacrifice my gains. Besides, as I said, it’s not like I’m competing or anything, so it’s not worth it to me to sacrifice many foods I love just to drop an extra 3% body fat or so.

Anyway, about your 8x3 and 3x8 suggestion. When doing this, I’m assuming they would be straight sets or ramping? If straight, what percentages would you recommend? I’m assuming somewhere around 85-90% for 8x3 but what about 3x8?

That is one of the things I have most trouble with…matching good rep ranges and weights. Seems like whenever I try to do sets of 8 I end up using too much weight and failing, but if I lower the weight I feel like I had a bad workout. I’ll appreciate your help, or if you can recall any good articles about rep ranges, that’d be awesome too.

I think you should check out Thibaudeau’s article “How to design a damn good program”. That will probably be better than cobbling together our advice.

I do think that if you’ve been doing 5x5 for a while, switching to a more “standard” bodybuilding set/rep scheme would be good for you—give your body a jolt and new stimulus. When you stick around the lower rep ranges, you risk (a) hitting only a certain kind of muscle fiber, (b) just getting neurally efficient at the movements and (c) not maximizing the time your muscle is under tension.

IOW, shoot for sets consisting of 8-12 reps.

I personally think if your goal is to add mass, and you have been doing full body for a while, you should switch to some sort of split if you are looking to change things up. From the sound of your physique and lifts you are ready to take that step.

[quote]BadgerDave wrote:

Well I’m assuming I’m at around 13% since I can see some abs (top two rows), but can’t see the the middle line…and I remember some article I read here says you can see the middle line at 9.8% and top abs at 15%.

But yea I gave up on cutting because I don’t want to sacrifice my gains. Besides, as I said, it’s not like I’m competing or anything, so it’s not worth it to me to sacrifice many foods I love just to drop an extra 3% body fat or so.[/quote]

It’s also amazing how your body composition can change with simple diet adjustments, cycling your carbs, etc. But yeah, as long as your diet is pretty clean, just make sure you are getting enough calories.

You can do the first movement (squat/deadlift) as straight sets, then for the other exercises, do pairings if you can, one set of bench, for example, followed by a set of rows, then back to bench until you finished all your sets. For loading, pick a weight you can lift for 4 or 5 reps on the 8X3 and a weight you can lift for 9/10 times on the 3X8, it might seem somewhat easy on the first two sets, but it will definitely challenge you going into your last set.

I wouldn’t worry about picking the exact weights in the beginning, estimate on your first two workouts, then adjust accordingly moving forward.

[quote]trextacy wrote:
I think you should check out Thibaudeau’s article “How to design a damn good program”. That will probably be better than cobbling together our advice.

I do think that if you’ve been doing 5x5 for a while, switching to a more “standard” bodybuilding set/rep scheme would be good for you—give your body a jolt and new stimulus. When you stick around the lower rep ranges, you risk (a) hitting only a certain kind of muscle fiber, (b) just getting neurally efficient at the movements and (c) not maximizing the time your muscle is under tension.

IOW, shoot for sets consisting of 8-12 reps.

I personally think if your goal is to add mass, and you have been doing full body for a while, you should switch to some sort of split if you are looking to change things up. From the sound of your physique and lifts you are ready to take that step.[/quote]

Eh…I’ve done splits before and I actually felt like I regressed. I don’t feel like I get as much work done on a weekly basis, and I love working out only 3 days/week because that leaves plenty of time for cardio.

But thanks for directing me to that article…I actually read it a while ago and wanted to find it but couldn’t remember who it is by.

Anyway thanks for the replies guys. Seems like this forum is a lot better than the bodybuilding.com forum…that one has gone way downhill.

One last question. My deadlift as you can see, is actually lower than my squat. That’s not right is it? lol

That was one of the reasons for altering Starr’s 5x5 the way I did, so that I can deadlift a bit more. Good idea?

[quote]BadgerDave wrote:
One last question. My deadlift as you can see, is actually lower than my squat. That’s not right is it? lol

That was one of the reasons for altering Starr’s 5x5 the way I did, so that I can deadlift a bit more. Good idea?[/quote]

A lot depends of your limb lengths etc.

You’ll find that non-raw powerlifters usually squat more than they deadlift due to the equipment they use.

My deadlift has always been 50-100 lbs higher than my squat.

More deadlifting is not always the answer. When you fail, where is your weakest point? Off the floor, lockout, in-between?

[quote]derek wrote:

A lot depends of your limb lengths etc.

You’ll find that non-raw powerlifters usually squat more than they deadlift due to the equipment they use.

My deadlift has always been 50-100 lbs higher than my squat.

More deadlifting is not always the answer. When you fail, where is your weakest point? Off the floor, lockout, in-between?[/quote]

Probably somewhere closer to off the floor, I don’t recall ever failing in the lockout. Come to think of it another thing that could be holding me back is my grip. I do over/under grip but when I get real heavy the bar starts to slip away. I’d use chalk but my gym doesn’t allow it. And I’ve never liked the feeling of lifting gloves.

Thanks for all the help guys. I actually decided to for the time being keep the workout the way it is, and use the 5x5 rep scheme…but a different 5x5. Straight sets instead of ramping. I based my decision off of this article http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/the_25_method&cr=

It’s basically Chad Waterbury’s 25 method. Figured I’d give it a shot to change things up. Taking only 60 seconds in between sets was definitely challenging and different from what I’ve done with Starr’s 5x5. I guess that it all comes down to Starr’s 5x5 being more about strength, therefore focusing on the CNS which if I recall correctly takes longer to recover than muscles themselves when you don’t go for max efforts. Anyway, since I’m not doing competitive sports anymore, I figured that training for maximal strength is the wrong approach. And I like Waterbury’s articles and I’m on the same boat as him when it comes to his full body training philosophy.

That’s a great program, I’ve done it twice. I think it’s the best set up if you like to do Oly lifts, which I do. I usually move to Chad’s MRT program right afterward, in fact, I’m just finishing up a 3-month cycle of it and I’m seen great results.

Just remember, in order for it to really work, you need to be very aggressive with the way you lift your weights, focus on your form and give it you very best. Eat big as well and post your results after a while.

Good luck!

[quote]BadgerDave wrote:
Thanks for all the help guys. I actually decided to for the time being keep the workout the way it is, and use the 5x5 rep scheme…but a different 5x5. Straight sets instead of ramping. I based my decision off of this article http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/the_25_method&cr=

It’s basically Chad Waterbury’s 25 method. Figured I’d give it a shot to change things up. Taking only 60 seconds in between sets was definitely challenging and different from what I’ve done with Starr’s 5x5. I guess that it all comes down to Starr’s 5x5 being more about strength, therefore focusing on the CNS which if I recall correctly takes longer to recover than muscles themselves when you don’t go for max efforts. Anyway, since I’m not doing competitive sports anymore, I figured that training for maximal strength is the wrong approach. And I like Waterbury’s articles and I’m on the same boat as him when it comes to his full body training philosophy.[/quote]

[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
That’s a great program, I’ve done it twice. I think it’s the best set up if you like to do Oly lifts, which I do. I usually move to Chad’s MRT program right afterward, in fact, I’m just finishing up a 3-month cycle of it and I’m seen great results.

Just remember, in order for it to really work, you need to be very aggressive with the way you lift your weights, focus on your form and give it you very best. Eat big as well and post your results after a while.

Good luck!
[/quote]

Thank you.

I used to love to do Olympic lifts back in high school, and I actually won a 3rd place trophy in a state competition in my weight class (only 7 people in the weight class, but it still felt good to win lol). But since I don’t do professional sports anymore I don’t do them anymore.

Eating big will definitely be a number one priority…even if it means eating too many carbs. Figured it’s better to eat too many carbs and gain some fat than to not eat enough and not get bigger.

Anyway I will be posting a training log to go along with this.

bill stars 5x5 google it

[quote]xvsanta42 wrote:
bill stars 5x5 google it[/quote]

Must have not read my whole first post. I’ve done that plenty of times but don’t care much for maximizing my strength, I’m looking more for size. That’s why I’ve decided on using the 25 method.

Check out Dr. Ken Leistner’s article entitled “Sensible Training”. It’s a good full body routine for 2 or 3 times a week. It can easily be found if you “google” it.

[quote]frodolives wrote:
Check out Dr. Ken Leistner’s article entitled “Sensible Training”. It’s a good full body routine for 2 or 3 times a week. It can easily be found if you “google” it.[/quote]

Full Squats - 15-20 reps

Pullovers - 10 reps

Standing Presses - 10 reps

Chins - 10 reps

Dips - 12 reps

Barbell Curls - 10 reps

Shrugs - 15 reps

Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 15 reps

This is from that article, I had it saved as a Word document.

[quote]frodolives wrote:
Check out Dr. Ken Leistner’s article entitled “Sensible Training”. It’s a good full body routine for 2 or 3 times a week. It can easily be found if you “google” it.[/quote]

Dr. Ken is a national treasure.

Seriously, this guy’s training advice is golden.

I wish T-Nation could sign him on.