I think I am in a bit of trouble here. I was blasting and cruising for almost 2 1/2 years without ever coming off of test base. I wanted to come off and try and have a kid with my wife and stopped.
I tapered down a bit on test and took a final shot.
Two weeks later I began clomid and nolvadex.
I could not mentally or physically tolerate clomid or nolvadex over 25mg/ day each. I tried
taking 50/50/25/25 nolva and clomid as suggested, but just could not handle the depression,
anxiety, and mental alteration, so ended up taking 25/25/25 clomid nolvadex for 3 weeks.
Even after those three weeks I was feeling absolutely trash miserable, depressed, tired,
lethargic etc. This was during Covid, so I could not even go to the gym.
Fast forward 3 months of barely tolerating that… Gyms opened back up and I began to workout daily again. After about 4 weeks of hitting the gym everyday I have started to feel better! I am not depressed, anxious, feel generally pretty energetic. Just a world of difference.
So yesterday I decided to get my bloodwork done to see where I am at. I got the results back this morning and I am very disappointed, but still slightly hopeful.
Is there anyone that can interpret these results and help me form a game plan to try and increase my natural hormones to acceptable ranges. I really do not want to get back on Test or anything for that matter, I want to be done with that part of my life. Do I need to get back on clomid and nolva for a while? Will I be able to tolerate it better this time around since I have recovered at least a little natural test? Basically… what the fuck do I do now? Want to have a child, want to regain natural production, don’t want to be substance dependent, just want to live my life naturally. Below are the results from yesterdays lab:
FSH 1.7 IU/L 1.5-12.4 MAIN
LH 3.1 IU/L 1.2-8.6 MAIN
TESTOSTERONE 177 L NG/DL 300-1080 MAIN
SEX HORM BIND GLOBULIN 19.7 NMOL/L 16.5-55.9 MAIN
CALC FREE TESTOSTERONE 43.7 LPG/ML 47.0-244.0 MAIN
Also if anyone can refer me to someone or a clinic that can actually help me further, I would appreciate it very much.
Take a look here to understand the suppression you’ve likely caused and get yourself educated:
With fertility a key consideration, please go find yourself a knowledgeable Men’s Health provider. If you find a good one then a provocative trial of urinary-derived hCG (Pregnyl or equivalent) 500 IU three times a week would be started if you aren’t fertile. This would allow you to gauge your testicular response after 5, 10, 15, 20 weeks and you could follow up at regular intervals with testosterone panel and semen analysis. A fertility provider may even start you at higher dosage.
Without direct intervention, you could be waiting a while as the data I shared demonstrates.
You recovered, just not very well. Your LH shows that. You’re just now a low t guy and will likely have to end up back in the saddle eventually. But you have a decent LH number, so get your sperm analyzed. You may well be able to impregnate your wife with those numbers. After the analysis—if your sperm looks good—give it a try. If after a few weeks you’re not getting anywhere then follow the above advice and start the HCG.
Short answer No. Would provide negative feedback to the pituitary which would suppress LH production. It would signal your testicles to make testosterone endogenously.
Does it matter if synthetic? I was under the impression synthetic was just as good?
No need to wait for trying IMO.
As to the OP, If it was me all, I probably would have lowered my test and used HCG at 500 iu EOD or 3X a week. Did that for 6 months, and done a sperm analysis.
So no possibility of increasing test levels to normal with another round of clomid or nolva? It has only been ~ 4 months recovery after 2 1/2 years heavy use , should I expect a continual gradual increase over the next year? Really want to avoid getting back on at all costs.
So with that being said, I probably would not use HCG if the hope is to come off for good.
I have heard of guys getting really good results “low dosing” SERMs. I know a guy who had a TT in the 900s with a dose of clomid around 15 mg a day. I have heard some have good long term results when using low dose. If it is me, I would use Nolva over Clomid. You could try running 10 mg a day of Nolva for a while and get a blood test. If you get good results, you could stay there, or try reducing a bit. You could eventually taper off of the Nolva, but I would take it slow.
I would expect a slow gradual recovery if you stay off of all drugs. You could probably have normal levels (might be low normal) if you wait a whole year.
Anything further you could recommend to elevate testosterone levels to normal range? I really, really don’t want to get back on T for many reasons. What would another round of nolva/clomid do? I definitely was not able to do a proper PCT coming off. Would another round of PCT be beneficial in any way? I believe I could not tolerate the clomid nolva initially because I was close to no endogenous testosterone. Now that I feel a little better overall, I might be able to stomache a proper round of clomid and nolva? Just wondering if there is any hope at all in reaching ~300-400 t levels after a year. I don’t mind being patient and trying things.
Thank you for this answer (and everyone else for their answers also), you guys are great.
This is what I was thinking too, maybe low dose clomid for a year. I don’t mind waiting a year for natural-ish levels to return as my goal is to stay off T. Bodybuilding is not my top priority anymore either so I don’t mind being natty big.
Great question and good point. Cant remember if there has been clinical trials validating Ovidrel vs Pregnyl in men. I remember rat studies. I will look into when I get time. Anecdotal, I didn’t seem to get same subjective benefit with Ovidrel as Pregnyl while on TRT. At one point I was concerned with prions and tried the Ovidrel for a few months. Chemically, there’s a soup of stuff in Pregnyl that isnt in the recombinant product.
I think if you do low dose SERM therapy, you won’t have to wait a year (if it works for you). Probably a couple weeks.
There is a long log here (in the TRT section) from a few years back which was a good read. The guy made lots of posts, and posted his blood work on different dosages of Clomid. Through blood work, he found the point at which increasing dose did not increase TT significantly, and kept that as his dose IIRC. IIRC, he did long term at 12.5 mg a day.
Hmm, I think I was mistaken on how much of it was synthetic (was thinking a majority of HCG on the market was synthetic, which is not true as only Ovidrel is). That article was difficult to read with the annoying pop ups. Also IMO they added confusion with the Ovidrel being administered in micro grams, and the urine derived HCG being in IU. I am assuming the dose is about equivalent?
He already has some LH production. Using HCG will lower LH. His goal is to get off for good it sounds like. Raising LH with a SERM should have a similar impact to his balls as using HCG (as HCG is an LH mimic).
I don’t believe this claim, but even if it was true, the logic is faulty.
If OP had just come off of the test, and his LH and FSH were tanked, then I would say use HCG for a bit, then do the SERM. OP has spent 4 months recovering his LH production. Why suppress it now?
Well, most do fine after shutdown with a Nolva PCT. IMO, HCG has a good place between the cycle and the PCT. In this specific case, I am not sure it makes sense. How much HCG would you think would make sense?
The guy was shutdown for 4 years correct?
Has small amounts of lh and fsh and super low test
I’m pretty much in the same boat myself.
I ran pct just nolva after a 12 week cycle and did not recover.
Just started a power restart I was going to do 2500 iu x8 but will be doing 1000 iu x 8
This is pretty much my last resort.
Hcg clomid 50mg for 35 days and nolva 20 20 20 20 10 5 2.5 0
Blast and cruise 2 1/2 years start to finish never came off (anadrol,tren,deca, test e) always on a base of 150mg/week test E while cruising.
Took last injection test e
2 weeks later ran 25/25/25 nolva and clomid because I could not handle higher doses (I believe this hindered my recovery to some degree), and why I want to possible try pct again.
3 months later, here I am.
So on 2 1/2 years
recovery 4 months total (1st month being pct 25/25/25 as mentioned above)
