T Nation

Help Adding HCG and Anastrozole

Hello T Nation,

I quick history. I’m 37 and four years ago I felt like I was in the best shape of my life. I got to the point that I wasn’t making any gains in the gym, but still felt good. Long story short I found the girl of my dreams and we had a kid and got married. Well that changed my lifestyle a bunch.

I stopped going to the gym, started eating bad again. I went from 175 to 220. About a year ago started feeling bad overall. A few months ago started having chest pressure and it scared the shit out of me. I went to a cardiologist and had stress test and my heart is fine.

The blood work found that I had a slightly elevated cholesterol and my total testosterone level was low at 192. The cardiologist told me I needed to do something about my low T so I went to my normal doc and he put me on 400mg of T-cyp a month taking 200mg every other week. After the first shot I noticed a change in my energy levels but it was short lived.

After about a week after the shot my energy level dropped right back down and I couldn’t wait until my next shot. I started doing my own research on testosterone replacement and found this site T NATIPN. After reading a bunch on this site I started taking my T shot at .50mg twice a week which is a total of 400mg every 4 weeks. I went back to my doc and told him how I was taking my T and that I wanted to start taking HCG and anastrozole and get more testing done.

He told me that was out of his realm of knowledge that I should go see a urologist specialist. The problem i’m having is finding a specialist that is not going to cost me thousands of dollars and that will prescribed me HCG. My wife and I still may want to have one more kid so getting on HCG is important to me.

I think I may just want to move forward with the HCG and the anastrozole on my own without the help of doctors. I would love for some help with reliable vendors of HCG and liquid anastrozole. Please msg me if you can help on that.

My first questions are.

Should I stop taking my T for some time and then start back with the addition HCG and anastrozole? If yes how long should I stay off the T before starting back up.

Should just start adding the HCG and anastrozole? If yes how long should I wait before I get my next lab work?
I have been on T for 7 weeks now. Eating right and hitting the gym 5 days a week. Feeling much better.

Thank you,
Tusk

You still need the labs. You can roll your own at LEF.com; cheaper with a member ship. Also read health condition articles there.

Your chest pain may have been heart burn and with your weight, possibly a hiatal hernia.

Your lack luster response may be from elevated E2.

I assume that you have not read the stickies or you would have posted more info and all lab results with ranges.

Look at the thyroid basics sticky, thyroid problems can lead to low energy and weight gain, creating similar to low testosterone or compounding those.

HCG can be hard to get on your own. Nolvadex 10mg ED/EOD can create similar benefits, see the stickies.

Doctors are the problem. Endo’s and urologists seem to be mostly clowns and really never take the time to fully understand what needs to be done. There is a finding a TRT doc sticky.

I went and got some labs done today. My Doc didn’t check the 4021 box for E2 testing but i had a pen. I will update with labs next week.

Thanks

My first set of lab before taking T 5.15.14

CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 283 H 125-200 mg/dL RGA
HDL CHOLESTEROL 44 > OR = 40 mg/dL RGA
TRIGLYCERIDES 150 H <150 mg/dL RGA
LDL-CHOLESTEROL 209 H <130 mg/dL (calc)
This is high but I’m working to bring this down.

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL RGA
GLUCOSE 97

UREA NITROGEN (BUN) 18
CREATININE 1.17
eGFR NON-AFR. AMERICAN 79
eGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN 92
BUN/CREATININE RATIO NOT APPLICABLE 6-22 (calc)
SODIUM 144
POTASSIUM 5.0
CHLORIDE 106
CARBON DIOXIDE 28
CALCIUM 9.7
PROTEIN, TOTAL 7.3
ALBUMIN 4.8
GLOBULIN 2.5
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO 1.9
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL 0.7
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 103
AST 26
ALT 52 I know this is high. Doc said this should come down as i lower my Cholesterol
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 8.8 3.8
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.03
HEMOGLOBIN 14.9
HEMATOCRIT 45.8
MCV 91.0
MCH 29.7
MCHC 32.7
RDW 14.1
PLATELET COUNT 257
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 5403
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 2561
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 642
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 185
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 9
NEUTROPHILS 61.4 %
LYMPHOCYTES 29.1 %
MONOCYTES 7.3 %
EOSINOPHILS 2.1 %
BASOPHILS 0.1 %
T4, FREE 1.2 0.8-1.8 ng/dL RGA
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL,MALES 194 L ng/dL
TSH 1.03
PSA, TOTAL 0.8

Labs after taking T for 7 weeks. 100mg per week T-cyp

UREA NITROGEN (BUN) 16 7-25 rng/dL
CREATININE 1.31 0.60-1.35 rng/dL
eGFR NON-AFR. AMERICAN 69 > OR = 60 rnL/rnin/1.73rn2
BUN/CREATININE RATIO NOT APPLICABLE 6-22 (calc)
SODIUM 142
POTASSIUM 4.1
CHLORIDE 107
CARBON DIOXIDE 23
CALCIUM 9.2
PROTEIN, TOTAL 6.7
ALBUMIN 4.5
GLOBULIN 2.2
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO 2.0
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL 0.4
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 75
AST 18
ALT 17
CBC (H/H, RBC, INDICES, WBC, PLT) RGA
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 9.1
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 4.86
HEMOGLOBIN 14.4
HEMATOCRIT 43.3
MCV 89.2
MCH 29.8
MCHC 33.3
RDW 13.7
PLATELET COUNT 272 Thousand/uL
TESTOSTERONE,TOTAL,MALES 469 ng/dL RGA
ESTRADIOL 29 pg/rnL

[quote]KSman wrote:
HCG can be hard to get on your own. Nolvadex 10mg ED/EOD can create similar benefits, see the stickies.[/quote]

I never noticed you recommending Nolvadex in lieu of HCG, and I don’t see info about it in the stickies. Which thread?

Thanks!

Ok so I went to see my doc after my lab work on 7/15/14 and he said my T looks good and my E2 was fine. I ask him again about adding HCG and anastrozole and he said no. He told me that stuff scares him, and If I wanted anything other than T to find another doctor. Basically he told me to find either an urologist or an ED doctor.

There happened to be an ED/low T doc in the same building so I went and seen him. The visit started off bad when I started talking about HCG and anastrozole. He basically said by looking at me and me asking about E2 blockers and HCG that I was some bodybuilder that just wanted some anabolic steroids. I have a big frame but by no means look like a bodybuilder.

First thought was to just get the hell out of there. I had my lab work with me and he started looking at it and the first thing he said is your testosterone is very low and E2 was fine and that he would treat me with 400mg of T-cyp a week. He told me my Total T should be around 348-1197 mg/ml and Free T at 17-29 pg/ml. He told me the amount of T need to get my Free T in range was by using this formula.
40% Bound to sex hormone binding globulins (SHBG)
58% Bound to albumins and other proteins
2% Free Testosterone

Then he wanted to examine me. Let me just say it sucks having some dude probing you, but in the end it was worth it. He said he checked me for three different types of testicular cancer. He did not detect any. He performed an Ultrasound for flow, which he said was low. He said the excess fat in my chest and blow my waits, thin and shiny sack wall are symptoms of Venous Leakage and testosterone treatment will clear up the problem. He wants to put me on 400mg of T a week for the next 12 weeks with no HCG or anastrozole. WTF that seem like way too much. They want $2100 a year. I don’t have the money or the time to keep jacking around with these doctors. They all have some different treatment or want to drain you dry of money.

400mg a week does seem to be very high, especially with your levels in the 400’s with 100mg. Isn’t that “juicing” levels?

I was doing 100mg a week of T-Cyp, 20mg Nolvadex a day and 1/2mg Adex a day and my T went over 1500.

I’ve cut back to 80mg a week, 20mg Nolvadex and 1/2mg of Adex EOD and it seems to be reasonable for me.

[quote]DFW wrote:

[quote]KSman wrote:
HCG can be hard to get on your own. Nolvadex 10mg ED/EOD can create similar benefits, see the stickies.[/quote]

I never noticed you recommending Nolvadex in lieu of HCG, and I don’t see info about it in the stickies. Which thread?

Thanks![/quote]

I’m curious also…my Doc is hedging on HcG.

I mention using a SERM because it can get the same job done as hCG in terms of preserving testicular health. And if fertility is a an issue, a SERM also leads FSH levels that can support/improve sperm production. However, many on T_hCG do not have fertility issues. When fertility is an issue, I suggest switching to a SERM for a while periodically to provide some FSH action now and then.

When I wrote info for the stickies, it was assumed that hCG was/would_be generally available, but it seems that docs are not on that page. Some docs would rather see your balls fall off then take the time to get educated.

I suggest a SERM as a last resort. SERM’s are chemicals that are foreign to your body and using that for the rest of your life does not seem right. hCG is a human hormone. Men were awash on hCG for a few months while in the womb.

Please see the end of the opening post of the advice for new guys. I just wrote about these issues in someone’s post and placed a link to that there.

I have not been going back to the stickies to make refinements.

I’m going to give this a shot.

133mg T E3D
.148mg anastrozole EOD = about .5mg per week- I know this is a low dose.
250iu HCG EOD

I have had two doses of the anastrozole. I’m taking it in the evening and the only side effect I have noticed is the following day I developed a headache in the afternoon. I have not had many headaches since I started taking T. This could just be a coincidence but I’m going to keep track. I would like to take the dose up to 1mg but don’t want any bad side effects.

I will be starting a new brand of T-cyp tomorrow, adding HCG Monday.

Should three weeks be enough time for my next set of blood test?
I want to make sure the new T is up to par and see where my E2 is at after adding more T and the addition of anastrozole and HCG.

?DHEA-S
?Estradiol
?Free and Total Testosterone
?PSA

Getting the test from www.lef.org. Male Basic Hormone Panel $100 - $75 for members.

Wait longer for labs, 4-6 weeks. Testicular recovery/function, TT, fT and E2 all need to co-balance.

At your age, PSA should not be an issue, no harm in checking, but I would leave that to 6 months.

I have been working with a HRT specialist in Tampa for almost 2 years now. I was tested on multiple labs with total T levels in the low to mid 300’s as well as having typical symptoms of low T. He has had me on 200mg of T cyp a week as well as 900iu of HCG (300iu per day the 3 days before every Friday T injection) as well as 1mg anastrozole EOD as my Estradiol did climb up after 3 months of the T use. So far so good as my weight has went up 8-9lbs and holding, libido back, appetite is surely back, strength way up and general daily vigor well back to normal since starting this regime. It works for me but everyone is different so consider that as well.

La Cross Grad,

Please open your own thread if you need any assistance with your situation.
There is a lot of good info in the advice for new guys forum. You should check it out.

Your E2 might be too low with 3.5mg anastrozole per week.

I just wanna throw out a big thank you to the TNation community. I’m learning a bunch everyday on this site. It is making my journey to feel better easier and less discouraging.

I think I’m speaking for everybody in this community THANK YOU KSman. I know you say this is a hobby for you, but even hobby’s can turn into full-time jobs. The time you spend to answer so many of our questions is amazing. My hat goes off to you Sir.

:slight_smile:

[quote]XDoodlebugger wrote:
I was doing 100mg a week of T-Cyp, 20mg Nolvadex a day and 1/2mg Adex a day and my T went over 1500.[/quote]

Same as you, accept I’m on HCG instead of Nolvadex, and I went to 1640. Cut back just like you did.

I went from 194 to 469 on just 100mg of T a week. I know the HCG would rise me up maybe another 100 or so since I was not making much T on my own. I’m thinking the HCG for me will just be for the overall health of my boys. I will be taking about 300mg of T a week and will see where that takes me.

I got my hands on some New T and HCG. My HCG is pregnant. Woot Woot so I know it’s good, but not sure about the T or the liquid A.

I know you said it would take about 4 to 6 weeks for everything to co-balance, but could I do a test 3 day after a shot to see if the T is good?

If I were an over responder to A how long would that take to show up?

I’m not trying to be impatient, I just don’t want to waste 4 to 6 week on bad T or crash my E2.

Kman,

not asking nor looking for any help at all. sorry if it came off that way. very happy with the results i have gotten with my HRT doc over the past couple years. just giving tiskull a personal example of how my specialist treats me for my situation and the outcomes i have gotten.

btw…my mistake, its 1mg anastrozole m-w-f not EOD…3mg a week. i was 114 E2 before starting it. now im back to 33 two months on it. did the trick!

Well I don’t think the anastrozole is giving me headaches anymore. I am taking it in the morning now.

No need to rush out and get a test for the new T. After my second shot of the new dose I can tell its working fine by my workouts in the gym. Its not like I’m besting out or anything, just good workout overall. Energy level thought the day seem better as well.

Still not getting morning woods. I’m guessing my E2 is still high. I’m going to keep my dose of anastrozole the same for now. In three more weeks I’ll get new blood work and hopefully it has not raised any. It really suck that I never had a base line of my E2 before I started TRT. Thinking back I definitely felt my self going through the sweet spot. When I first started the TRT I was getting my morning woods. Now it hit and miss. More miss .

New Blood Test

Total T 578
Free T 19.4
E2 29.4
DHEA-S 206.4
PSA 1.3

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