Help a Newbie Out

I’m sort of a newbie on supplements/stacks so I’m looking for some advice and guidance. Just some background, I’ve been working out for the past couple of years, but not seriously for gaining mass. Most of it’s been on the cario side; rowing, jogging, etc at least an hour 5 days a week.

I’m looking to start building some mass and am getting everything in order; hence the reason for this post. My diet is impecable. I was fat as a child and lost the weight in my mid teens; and hence done weeks on studying nutrition, foods, GI index, etc, etc to loose it and keep it off. I also did workout a few years ago and done a lot of research on routines, correct form, etc so that’s looked after.

Where I am now is the past few years with kids, house, work etc I haven’t had a chance to get serious on the mass building. Where I live (small town in Ontario) I don’t have easy access to a gym (I had to put one im my house), or a source for the “good” supplements so below is what I’ve managed to get my hands on. I don’t plan on taking them all at once, or in the immediate future, but since it’s difficult to get my hands on things I’ve grabbed things when I get the opportunity.

6-oxo extreme (150tabs)- to use for PCT
1ad/4ad stack (180 tabs) - to use for cycle
Superdrol (90 tabs) - to use for cycle
Clomex (30 Tabs)- to use for PCT
Nolvadex (50 tabs)- to use for PCT
Andriol (120 tabs) - to use for cycle

My Stats

Height 5’6"
Weight 130lbs

Age 35
BF 9%
BP 110/70 Average

The past couple of months, I’ve been trying to get my bf% down as low as possible while trying to maintain my muscle mass. When I switch to bulking up I didn’t want to add a bunch of fat to what was already there as I would end up loosing to much muscle to get the bf% back down to something reasonable.

I’m soon ready to start doing less cardio and more weight lifting and eating more. I’m thinking of ramping up on the weight lifting until I reach the point where I’m almost overtraining, then cut back slightly and start the cycle (probably in a one and a half to two month time frame) to keep me going.

I was thinking of doing the 1ad/4ad stack with the superdrol for 4 weeks, with a 5th week of the andriol, then 6 weeks with the pct (6-oxo, clomex and nolvadex), then depending on how I feel modify if necessary and do another 4 week cycle. Also, I have a physical scheduled in a couple of weeks to see how everything sits, but the one last year came back with excellent results and I don’t think anything has changed.

Also, I do think my test is low as I was fat as a kid and then in my late teens lost the weight and have been focused on a high protein, low GI carb, extremely low fat diet.

Guidance/suggestions welcome, even if it’s to tell me I’m and idiot.


Updated - Forgot to add
I’m currently taking the following supplements

Complete Multivitamin
EFA Supp 3 x day
Indole 3 carbinol (I3C) 3 x day
Calcium-D-glucarate 3 x day
Saw pallmetto 3 x day
Milk Thistle (1000mg)

Well it seems you are physically fit but I mean… I am thinking if you are 130lbs maybe your training is a little off. I know you said you havent had time to really try to build mass but using PH are not going to really give you the results you are looking for. In my opinion, they are more risky than taking AAS.

Why not try posting your workout to have it critiqued to help you build mass?


You don’t have a gear problem (yet). You have a diet and training problem.

macros and their timing. Eating a low fat diet will hamper your testosterone production. Eat roughly 0.5 your body weight in grams of (poly, mono) unsaturaed and saturated fats and omega-3 fats. Stay away from trans and hydrogenated. Eat a bit more than your weight in grams of protein. Every meal, consume protein. On a regular bulk diet, eat carbs every meal. Otherwise, limit your carb intake to post work out, up to two hours after. Eat meals every two to three hours throughout the day.

Count your calories. If at 2000/day you’re not gaining weight, up the calories 200 for a total of 2200. wait a week or two, observe results and adjust if necessary.

I would highly recommend EDT. Do a search.

you should be able to gain up to 40 pounds without any chemical enhancements (besides tribulus). None of this is gonna happen overnight. If you keep yourself strict and push yourself harder than you’ve ever done before, you should gain 20 pounds in a year.

There’s a lot more. Go into the bodybuilding forum and read!!!

Thanks for the replies.

I’ll post my workout and diet shorlty. I’m not looking to jump right into the PH’s and expect to gain massive amount of muscle overnight. Mostly I wanted to stock up for when I was ready since it’s not easy for me to come by the mass building supps. I’m somehwat ambisious so maybe the two month time frame was being a little hasty. My thing with the PH’s was that nature, I think, is working against me. I’m small framed to begin with and I think my test is low compared to my estrogen, and at my age I’m not sure how much I can get it up (the test that is!!) I’ll find out at my physical.


I reccomend using BCAA’s some ZMA and a fork at regular intervals

Good for you for getting advise first. Next get rid of the prohormones. They have more side effects then steroids. Get some Alpha Male or something a little more safe. Buy and cap your own tribulus from e-bay. I have personally seen guys that take prohormones and ask me all freeked out where there man boobs came from.

Then they ask me to get Nolva or other PCT for them cause of lack of planning and sides from hell. And I am not talking just sore swollen nipples. I am talking glands and the muscles make them pop right out. So its like boobs on your muscle. Right now I think your need to correct your diet and training and you will see results. After you have some experience jump on the AAS bandwagon if you want to bring it over the top.

Good luck !

Thanks for the replies. This site is amazing for the help and information that’s available. Yes I agree, diet and workout are front and foremost. I’ve picked up some BCAA yesterday, I’ll be getting some ZMA today.

I’m at the age now were every year on is going to make it more difficult, so I figured that I better start now; otherwise I’m going to end up overweight, out of shape and health problems in my golden years. I’m not looking to put on massive amounts of muscle as I know it’s not realistic, just would like to max out my potential for my age (hence the interest in the PH’s). How does that go “I’m not as good as I once was, but I once was as good as I ever was”

sorry…my bad!

No worries :slight_smile:

When i started working out I was 120lbs and in highschool. I was skinnier than you… naturally i put on about 70lbs in a few years (maybe about 4?)… now my test levels/age back then had a lot to do with it, but i paid my dues before i ever considered AAS. So trust me, with a strict diet and good training its possible. I went from a very ectomorphic looking frame to a pretty mesomorphic looking frame. Maybe some HGH will help me complete my goal later in life. Only 25 now so im not looking in that direction yet.


p.s. i agree with ditching the PH’s. Then when you’re ready for AAS then use the internet as your source. Do some research youll find it.

Can i just say, (sorry for the mini hijack) after reading the messages of all you guys who responded to scrawny_guy’s post, im really proud to be a member of this forum, in light of the rantings ravings and arguments that have been the last few months with newbies this thread was a refreshing reminder of what is done best on T-Nation.
Hats off to you gentlemen.

something like the t-dawg diet might be good paired with bcaa pre/post workout since you wanna stay really lean

Thanks, I’ll look up the t-dawg diet. I’ve got the BCAA that I’ll start taking pre/post. I’m not to concerned about staying really lean on the bulking, I just don’t want to end up with a lot of fat that when I cut down end up loosing all my gains.

My suggestion is to review your diet and supplements. I saw no mention of glutamine, BCAA’s or ZMA. Also it takes time to evaluate how your body reacts to different nutritional plans. You may think your diet is working but you can’t say for sure until you’ve taken the time to try several different diets and eating schedules.


Scrawny_guy, I started this journey @ 2002. I was 33 (still 5’10") and 160 lean pounds. In November 2005, I got up to 180-190 and hit a plateau. Then I learned how to eat and train, thank you T-Nation.

Now, at 39 I’ve hit a level I can’t jump past. My T levels suck. I’m stuck at 225. Enter gear.

I’ve learned the important things first.

look at the other post recently of the guy that ran 6 cycles in a year of ph and had a free test level of well under 200ng/dl and a pretty intense case of gyno. Play the diet/training game for awhile and if you really need to do something go for the aas. At least the positive and (possible) negative effects will be more predictable.

[quote]mbaina wrote:
My suggestion is to review your diet and supplements. I saw no mention of glutamine, BCAA’s or ZMA. Also it takes time to evaluate how your body reacts to different nutritional plans. You may think your diet is working but you can’t say for sure until you’ve taken the time to try several different diets and eating schedules.

-M [/quote]

X2. everyones diffrent, you just have to find out what works for u.

Thanks for all the replies, and the encouragement. Always being the shortest and the smallest sort has given me a complex so I guess I was looking to take the easy road.

I’ll shove the PH’s in the freezer and focus on proper nutrition, workout, recovery and supplements. Once I’ve maxed out with that then I’ll probably revisit the PH’s.

Dedication won’t be a problem. When I was in my early teens, I was driven to loose the weight. I analyzed everything I ate, excercised 1+ hours of cardio and lightwieght lifting everyday and lost 40lbs in 3 1/2 months. Even for the past couple of years, I get up at 5am 5x a week to do 45min on the rowing machine. Now that the kids are a little older, I can afford the time to properly put on some mass.

I’m excited about the transformation ahead.


P.S This site rocks!!

to throw a wrench in the gears of the prohormones are worse argument, not with everyone. I’m one of the few that only experienced muscle growth and mild sides on-cycle. no gyno post only elevated liver values but that was expected and no permanent supression of natural test production. Anywho, like the fellers said, eat and eat some more. I’d cutout the cardio a bit. 3 sessions per week is my routine when i’m bulking. Happy growing!