T Nation

Help! 3 Disastrous AAS Cycles


Hey everyone,
My name is Chris, I'm 27 and I have done three AAS cycles. I have been lifting for 7 years. Here are some stats:
Bwt: 83 kg (183 lbs) - 5ft11
Bench 1RM: 140 kg (315 lbs)
Squat 1RM: 200 kg ( 440lbs)

Here is my problem. I have made some fantastic gains on testosterone in the past, but I never keep any of my gains. During my first cycle (Test 500mg/week for 12 wks) I made the mistake of not using HCG, and only used Nolva and Clomid.

I lost all my gains within a week, got extremely depressed etc.. The next cycle I did 500mg test for 12 weeks again, and used HCG, and kept maybe 20% of my gains, which is nothing. After 3 months off my test levels were still very low (320 and the range is 300-1000) but I couldn't wait any longer and had to do another cycle because I was so sick of losing all my gains.

So I did a 750mg/week test cycle for 15 weeks. I wanted the cycle to last 12 weeks, but after 11 weeks, I got a infection in my leg, because of a bacteria. I used all necessary hygiene precautions but got infected anyway, so it must've been the gear I was using.

I spent nearly 2 weeks in hospital and during that time I stayed on Dbol so as to not loose muscle. I was on HCG from weeks 4 to 11 (until I went to the hospital) then 2 more weeks of Dbol plus HCG after I got out the hospital.. I used letro during the cycle because I was starting to get a bit of gyno.

I then used Clomid and Nolva.. Well, I lost all my gains again.. This is getting really depressing. So my question is.. What am I doing wrong ?? I seem to be doing everything by the book, yet I can't keep my gains. I have put so much effort and money into this, and the results in the end are shit !

My question is, is there anything missing from my PCT ? I'm currently using GHRP-6 but it doesnt seem to be making a difference. Could IGF-1 do the trick ? What about a cortisol blocker ? I know my cortisol is usually quite high.

I'm actually even considering doing blast and cruise just to be able to keep my gains, but that would mean staying on forever, and possibly not being able to have children..
Another thing to try would be to take a less suppressive steroid such as Anavar, and then use a powerful PCT, so as not to be completely shut down and increase my chances of recovery.

Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.


Forgot to mention, my time off AAS was 3.5 months after my first 12 week cycle, and 4 months after my second 12 week cycle (after 4 months off, my test level was 320). I have now been off my last cycle for a month and a half.


You have low testosterone. Thats one of the main reasons why you cant maintain gains. Id also guess that you arent adjusting your diet and training appropriately. But even if that was done perfectly, having such a low testosterone level will make things difficult.

You should probably be on TRT.

Theres no way to know what your T level was before you started but either way, you either damaged your HPTA or had a poorly functioning one to begin with.

Theres really no reason to believe that you can maintain gains made from 10x your normal androgen levels when your body is only producing testosterone slightly above the bottom of the 'normal' range.

Running such long cycles definitely isnt productive for someone in your situation. Your goal should be to make recovery as easy as possible. That means run cycles for 8 weeks or (preferably) less.


Thanks a lot for your reply. I think you're probably right. I think my test levels were probably low to begin with. Do you think it would be a good idea to only use a less suppressive anabolic such as Anavar ? Of course I will now wait a while until I do this, and will get some blood tests done. I'm currently still using Clomid 50mg/day in an attempt to raise my endogenous T levels. I'll do the blood tests when I'm done with that.

Maybe I should stay off roids altogether ??


Hey, what brand of clomid and nolva are you using?

Did you buy it off the street?

And my test levels are lower then yours and i gain a good amount of muscle naturally...Dont blame it on your natural test levels.

If you have health insurance go get blood work...not only test levels but a full panel.


My advice is to keep cycles between 6-8 weeks, using HCG every three weeks or so. Try to exit your cycle using primo + anavar or something like that.

On day 1 of PCT -> 300 mg of CLOMID
From day 2 until you recover your natural production -> 50 mg /day

No need for HCG post cycle, no need to run NOLVA and CLOMID togheter.

Adjust your training by lowering one or more of the following -> frequency, volume, intensity


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I've tried several types of Clomid.. The latest one being GP Clomid. I get everything off the net. I'll definitely get some blood work done.


Thanks for your reply. Do you think shorter cycles would make a difference ? Wouldn't 6-8 weeks of test still shut you down ? Ending a cycle with primo or var could be helpful.


Hi Bushi, I was hoping you'd reply, as I've read a lot of your posts over the years and have learned a fair bit from them.
The thing about DAA is that I read that it only raises t levels temporarily. I read this medical abstract on Pubmed, where DAA was used to raise endogenous testosterone, which it did, but 3 days after stopping the use of DAA the levels had nearly come back to what they previously were.

About my nutrition, you could be right..
On cycle I eat about 4000kcal/day or more. 5 to 6 meals a day, a lot of protein, a lot of oats. I have a post-workout shake with protein and maltodextrin.


Here is what my training looked like on my last cycle:

TUESDAY: Back / Rear Delts
Close Grip Cable Row 3 x 15-20
Wide Grip Pulldowns 3 x 15-20
DB Shrugs 3 x 15-20
Rear Delt Raises 2 x 20-25

THURSDAY: Chest / Side Delts
Bench Press 3 x 15-20
Incline Flyes 3 x 20-25
Lateral Raises 2 x 20-25
L-Flyes 1 x 50-100

Incline Curls 4 x 12-15
DB French Press 4 x 20-25
Pinwheel Curls 4 x 12-15
V-Grip Pushdown 4 x 20-25
DB Wrist Curl 4 x 15-25

Machine Hack Squat 3 x 15-20
Seated Leg Curl 3 x 15-20
Calf Presses 3 x 20-25
Seated Calf Raises 3 x 20-25


No squats or deadlifts?? That there is your problem...

I'm only half kidding...

You didn't mention what your doses were for your PCT from your cycles...are you sure you were doing it right?

You should look into TRT (or more aptly, HRT since it may not be testosterone that is driving your hormone production down)...


I've had my t-levels checked 3x, last year it was 399, then a few months ago it was 455 and then about a month ago it was 339. Given what you said above, am I likely to be screwed when I come off a future cycle? TRT isn't really an option considering i'm so young. I doubt any docs would be willing to prescribe it for someone in their low 20's, other than maybe some health center where it wouldn't be covered by insurance.


I usually ran
Day 1 - Clomid 300mg
Day 2-12 - Clomid 100mg Nolva 40mg
Day 12-23 - Clomid 50mg - Nolva 20mg
Day 24-30 - Clomid 50mg

I don't see why not doing squats and deadlifts is a problem. I did them for years. Squats don't give big thighs to everyone, it depends on your build. All they gave me was a massive ass, no legs.. Since I switched to machine hack squats I started gaining size on my thighs. Deadlifts also seem to primarily work my lower back and glutes, I prefer doing rows for back thickness, and seated leg curls for hamstrings.


I get it, those other exercises are certainly easier. I was just slightly confused by your intro:

It might give someone the impression that you are talking about an actual squat...

Carry on


I don't know anything about the roidz, but I saw this title on the main page and it pulled me in.

The routine above is shit.


Likely? Um I dont know. No one can predict the future.

We know that the OPs T level was low AFTER doing a cycle. Not what the level was before.

THeres no way to predict this stuff. But when you have certain circumstances and certain information available, it's possible to make a guess on cause and effect.