Helen Thomas = Bigot

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nothingclever wrote:
I don’t see what she said as being anything bad. The Jews largely left their promised land after being oppressed numerous times and then decided to come back to it. They were told to fuck off. They then used force to get themselves into the area and in control of it. What is wrong with wanting to use force to get them the fuck out?

Plus whether they have a right to the land or not why stay in it if everyone hates you? You’d be doing your future generations a favor by leaving and settling in a region less likely to be wiped off the map at some point.[/quote]

Another history ignoramus. They aboundeth herein.[/quote]
How so buddy? Tell me where I’m wrong smartass so I can laugh at you.

Very appropriate how you call someone ignorant yet apparently don’t know how to use the edit button.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Can anyone point out the “antisemitic hatred” and “bigotry” of her remarks?..

[/quote]
Can anyone not point it out?[/quote]

Don’t get me wrong, it’s no fun to defend an ardent leftist, but she was clearly talking about the state of Israel, and not the Jewish people themselves.

[quote]nothingclever wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nothingclever wrote:
I don’t see what she said as being anything bad. The Jews largely left their promised land after being oppressed numerous times and then decided to come back to it. They were told to fuck off. They then used force to get themselves into the area and in control of it. What is wrong with wanting to use force to get them the fuck out?

Plus whether they have a right to the land or not why stay in it if everyone hates you? You’d be doing your future generations a favor by leaving and settling in a region less likely to be wiped off the map at some point.[/quote]

Another history ignoramus. They aboundeth herein.[/quote]
How so buddy? Tell me where I’m wrong smartass so I can laugh at you.

Very appropriate how you call someone ignorant yet apparently don’t know how to use the edit button.
[/quote]

study history dumbass.

I watched more of the video now. The comparison to telling blacks to go back to Africa is absolutely fallacious. Blacks were largely forced to come to America as slaves, Jews were not forced to go to Israel. Israel was instituted very recently in history and placed in a spot of turmoil amid historical enemies of the Jews.

Those Jews came from all of the places that she said. If you think that the state of Israel is a “criminal” state, then why is it bigoted to say that the people that moved there should go back to where they came from in the first place before they set up that criminal state? And this is not meant to be a commentary on Israel’s legitimacy, but a defense of someone’s right to speak freely about something they disagree with.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Can anyone point out the “antisemitic hatred” and “bigotry” of her remarks?..

[/quote]
Can anyone not point it out?[/quote]

“Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.”… “Remember. These people are occupied . . . and it’s their land - not Germany and its not Poland.” The interviewer says “So where should they go? What should they do?” She replies “Go home.” He asks, “Where’s their home?” She replies “Poland. Germany.”
He asks “So the Jews - you’re saying Jews go back to Poland and Germany?” She replies by nodding her head and continuing “And America and everywhere else.”

Since orion requires a further explanation, note that Ms. Thomas refers to “Palestine,” the name for the British Mandate territories, and she does not mention the current Palestinian Territories or the Occupied Territories. To those who are not deaf, the clear implication is that Israelis should simply disappear, “to their home.”

But the next phrase makes it clear that she means “Jews,” who should return to “their home,” which includes the Germany and Poland, but not Israel by name.

Had she said, “Israelis should remove themselves from the Occupied Territories,” she would be just one more reporter with a bias. But by contemning the interviewer, and by elaborating that Jews should go to Germany and Poland–with their particular pointed history–she is clear: they can have no home in Palestine, or even Israel.

And that is how the mask falls away, and the political charade is revealed as simple bigotry…or Judenhass, to orion.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dabba wrote:
I watched more of the video now. The comparison to telling blacks to go back to Africa is absolutely fallacious. Blacks were largely forced to come to America as slaves, Jews were not forced to go to Israel. Israel was instituted very recently in history and placed in a spot of turmoil amid historical enemies of the Jews. Those Jews came from all of the places that she said. If you think that the state of Israel is a “criminal” state, then why is it bigoted to say that the people that moved there should go back to where they came from in the first place before they set up that criminal state? And this is not meant to be a commentary on Israel’s legitimacy, but a defense of someone’s right to speak freely about something they disagree with. [/quote]

Who here was trying to take away her right to speak freely?

If one has the right, and they do, to speak freely about something they disagree with then surely another has the same right to disagree with that person, right? Think before typing, friend. Think.

Don’t freely extend freedom of speech to one and yet withhold it from the one who disagrees with the former.[/quote]

I meant from a social view, not from a political one. I shouldn’t have used the word “right”. Guess I should have made that more clear. However insensitive her remarks were, I’m unconvinced that they were THAT bad and inflammatory.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nothingclever wrote:

How so buddy? Tell me where I’m wrong smartass so I can laugh at you.

[/quote]

Lemme let you in on a secret (for you). The forebears of the Palestine people that are there now were not there in 1917 when the state of Israel was being formed with the exception of a very, very small amount. Most of the Palestinians that live in Israel now have migrated there since Israel was formed (1917 - 1948).

This is where you’re wrong so now you can laugh at me.
[/quote]
Cool story bro. The thing is I don’t need to know what the majority of the population specifically was at that time. The majority of people in the area weren’t Jewish. They’ve been exiled a million times which ensured that. They are foreign people forcing their way into the land. Muslims were the majority. Muslims immigrating from one Muslim area to another Muslim area is obviously tolerated by the natives because they are, you guessed it, Muslims. A Jewish minority increasing its presence in a largely Muslim area isn’t.

bye beeeeyatch! dont let the door hit you on the way out!

[quote]Dabba wrote:
…Those Jews came from all of the places that she said. If you think that the state of Israel is a “criminal” state, then why is it bigoted to say that the people that moved there should go back to where they came from in the first place before they set up that criminal state? … [/quote]

Mighty big “If” there. Of course, if one denies Israel its legitimacy, then all else follows, and no one need to feel that they have selected a certain ethnic group for a unique hatred, right?
Please tell us at what precise moment Israel became a “criminal” state. 1883? 1917? 1936? 1947? 1948? 1967?–oh, that is a popular start of criminality, isn’t it?

As for “going back to where they came from,” let’s explore the Wiki truth, as even Helen Thomas could remember it:

“Anti-Jewish Violence In Poland, 1944â??1946 refers to a series of violent incidents that immediately followed the end of the Second World War in Poland and influenced postwar history of Jews in Poland as well as Polish Jewish relations. The exact number of Jewish victims is a subject of debate but the range is estimated as 1,000[1] to 2,000[2] Polish citizens of Jewish ethnicity â?? largely those returning to Poland after surviving the war on Soviet territory, but also those who survived the Holocaust in Nazi-occupied Europe,[3] â?? were murdered, constituting 2 to 3 percent of the total number of victims of postwar violence in the country.[2][4] The incidents ranged from individual attacks to pogroms. Partly as a result of this violence, about one half of the Jewish population (100,000â??120,000 out of 180,000â??240,000[5]) left Poland by 1948.”

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]Dabba wrote:
…Those Jews came from all of the places that she said. If you think that the state of Israel is a “criminal” state, then why is it bigoted to say that the people that moved there should go back to where they came from in the first place before they set up that criminal state? … [/quote]

Mighty big “If” there. Of course, if one denies Israel its legitimacy, then all else follows, and no one need to feel that they have selected a certain ethnic group for a unique hatred, right?
Please tell us at what precise moment Israel became a “criminal” state. 1883? 1917? 1936? 1947? 1948? 1967?–oh, that is a popular start of criminality, isn’t it?
[/quote]

I specifically stated that it was not my intention to discuss Israel’s legitimacy. I am a self-admitted non-expert on that subject and wouldn’t even engage in that topic too much. I simply don’t see the bigoted hatred that people are talking about. She probably should have said Israelis, but come on, who doesn’t think “Jew” when you think “Israeli”? Is it that bad that she said this?

I don’t necessarily think she meant for her words to sound as bad as people say they did simply because I doubt she wanted to ruin her reputation. She did say America and everywhere else. A lot of people don’t know where most Jews are other than in Israel. When I think Jews I think Germany, Israel, US, Poland and Canada.

I wouldn’t be surprised if she listed Poland and Germany because they are the two places she most strongly associates them with and not because they are countries where many were killed. When I think Germany/Germans I think Hitler but that’s not because I think ill of the nation or that it’s still under Nazi rule.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Can anyone point out the “antisemitic hatred” and “bigotry” of her remarks?..

[/quote]
Can anyone not point it out?[/quote]

“Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.”… “Remember. These people are occupied . . . and it’s their land - not Germany and its not Poland.” The interviewer says “So where should they go? What should they do?” She replies “Go home.” He asks, “Where’s their home?” She replies “Poland. Germany.”
He asks “So the Jews - you’re saying Jews go back to Poland and Germany?” She replies by nodding her head and continuing “And America and everywhere else.”

Since orion requires a further explanation, note that Ms. Thomas refers to “Palestine,” the name for the British Mandate territories, and she does not mention the current Palestinian Territories or the Occupied Territories. To those who are not deaf, the clear implication is that Israelis should simply disappear, “to their home.”

But the next phrase makes it clear that she means “Jews,” who should return to “their home,” which includes the Germany and Poland, but not Israel by name.

Had she said, “Israelis should remove themselves from the Occupied Territories,” she would be just one more reporter with a bias. But by contemning the interviewer, and by elaborating that Jews should go to Germany and Poland–with their particular pointed history–she is clear: they can have no home in Palestine, or even Israel.

And that is how the mask falls away, and the political charade is revealed as simple bigotry…or Judenhass, to orion.[/quote]

There are people on this board who go apeshit because hispanics come to their country, against their wishes refuse to learn the language and so further and so on.

Now inagine they brought their own religion, language and mores, replaced your population, treated the indigenous people like second class citizens and continued all of this until this day.

It is funny that the very same people who defend this in the case of Israel go absolutely nuts when they even suspect that they might one day be treated like Israel treats Palestinians day in and day out.

I wish people were somewhat consistent when it comes to matters like that.

Everything she said is true. No big deal. I don;t see the issue. I see illogical knee jerking preprogrammed responses disguised as original criticism.

The fact is the Jews ARE occupying an unwilling peoples. All this study history crap over and over is a smokescreen. They ARE occupying. That’s why Israel is always in upheaval. They are seen as invaders. But study history and abra cadabra your thinking will change to see them as benevolent home comers. Fuckin lol.

[quote]orion wrote:
Can anyone point out the “antisemitic hatred” and “bigotry” of her remarks?

Was Ben Gurion an “antisemitic bigot”?

[/quote]

Guess you didn’t see the video?

[quote]nothingclever wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nothingclever wrote:

How so buddy? Tell me where I’m wrong smartass so I can laugh at you.

[/quote]

Lemme let you in on a secret (for you). The forebears of the Palestine people that are there now were not there in 1917 when the state of Israel was being formed with the exception of a very, very small amount. Most of the Palestinians that live in Israel now have migrated there since Israel was formed (1917 - 1948).

This is where you’re wrong so now you can laugh at me.
[/quote]
Cool story bro. The thing is I don’t need to know what the majority of the population specifically was at that time. The majority of people in the area weren’t Jewish. They’ve been exiled a million times which ensured that. They are foreign people forcing their way into the land. Muslims were the majority. Muslims immigrating from one Muslim area to another Muslim area is obviously tolerated by the natives because they are, you guessed it, Muslims. A Jewish minority increasing its presence in a largely Muslim area isn’t.[/quote]

You need to get your history straight.

  1. Why were there so few Jews remaining in Israel after the 1st century AD - it’s called the diaspora

  2. Who lived in the region from 100 AD through 900 AD - a few remaining Jews and other semetic tribes - Arabs.

  3. How did Muslims come to occupy Israel - by sword and violence in the 9th thru 12th centuries

  4. Are Muslims native to the region - no

  5. Are Jews native to the region - yes, by all useful standards. Their forefather Abraham having lived in the region since around 2000 BC, they have the most direct lineage and longest history in the region.

  6. The Muslim religion is the invader/parasite of the land, not the Jewish descendants returning to their homeland. It’s the equivalent of returning lands to the native Americans.

[quote]Dabba wrote:
I watched more of the video now. The comparison to telling blacks to go back to Africa is absolutely fallacious. Blacks were largely forced to come to America as slaves, Jews were not forced to go to Israel. Israel was instituted very recently in history and placed in a spot of turmoil amid historical enemies of the Jews.

Those Jews came from all of the places that she said. If you think that the state of Israel is a “criminal” state, then why is it bigoted to say that the people that moved there should go back to where they came from in the first place before they set up that criminal state? And this is not meant to be a commentary on Israel’s legitimacy, but a defense of someone’s right to speak freely about something they disagree with. [/quote]

She didn’t say Israel one time, she said Jews. And if you think Israel is a “criminal state” your an idiot. It’s the most legal nation in the world as it was voted on by the UN and given to them as their land. The land was conquested by England. You got a problem with the land and who’s on it, talk to them about it.