Heavy Squats and Great Judo

Training Logs
21

I was gonna leave well enough alone, but I can’t. Maybe it’s my injured pride at my advice being ignored, maybe I’m salty and miss coaching. But I think it’s because I care so deeply about the martial arts, and I don’t want some impressionable kid stumbling across this dumpster fire and thinking high rep squats will make them a better boxer. Because it fucking won’t.

You don’t need to test this theory. I’m telling you it won’t work. The amount of guys I’ve sparred with — both in striking and grappling — who came into it think strength alone would win it for them is significant, and they all gassed out immediately. The guys who I worked with in grappling did better because you can kinda get away with mauling someone with strength, but striking? Nope. They got fucked and were sucking wind in minutes.

Being able to squat 225 for 100 reps does nothing for boxing. It makes you great at squatting 225 for high reps, but boxing is full body, heavily stressing the upper body. 100 reps of hang clean & press would be better. But it still isn’t boxing.

If you can squat 300+ for a few reps and do olympic lifts, you’re so far beyond a “foundation of general strength”. Fitness? Maybe not. But 20-fucking-rep squats won’t get you there. Jump rope, running, speed walking, stationary/assault bike, battle ropes, hitting a heavy bag, etc etc etc will get you MUCH better fitness for boxing. But you know what beats all of it?

ACTUALLY FUCKING BOXING.

I never, EVER, in all my years of coaching, had a new student come in and told them, “Before I actually teach you, here’s a list of general strength and fitness milestones you need to reach before I start training you.”

They want to learn boxing/kickboxing/grappling? Great, let’s fucking do it. No time like the present to start. The SAID principle abso-fucking-lutely applies here. They’ll start learning the basics, the body becomes adjusted to the imposed demand, their brain ingrains the movements, then they slowly learn more advanced skills.

Let me ask you this: what would happen if I wanted to improve my deadlift, and I went and asked a bunch of powerlifters, and they gave me great advice, but then I said, “Actually, I’m really into long-distance cycling right now so I’m gonna keep doing that. Oh, but I also think all this cycling will make my deadlift better without actually deadlifting at all.”? Everyone would think I was a fucking lunatic. Do you see how crazy the above scenario is? Because that’s what you sound like.

There’s a few scenarios I can attribute to this whole debacle:

  1. You’re absolutely delusional and have somehow convinced yourself that, with ZERO experience, you know best. Which, whatever, you do you. But if this is the case cut the feigned humility. Good luck, because you’re gonna need it.

  2. You’re just misguided and actually have intention of dedicating yourself to boxing when you’re done with your squat goals. Also, totally fine. Again though, understand just how fucking wrong you are about this weird notion that 20-rep squats will help boxing. THEY. WON’T.

  3. You’re nervous to start boxing and are making up a laundry list of excuses and, in the process, making yourself out to be an idiot. If so, dude, I get it. Starting something new is scary. Especially something like a fighting art. I can tell you with 100% certainty though that the martial arts community is SO welcoming. We LOVE when people take interest in our disciplines, and you’ll be welcomed with open arms and become part of a wonderful new family. I trained at 3 different schools back home, and every single one of them became as close to me as my actual family.

To anyone else reading this: 20 rep squats will not improve your boxing. Boxing will improve your boxing. Don’t do it.

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22

I’ve done cardio, high rep squats (sets of 30 each), and heavy weights. High rep squats and cardio are equally tough. Yeah, I’ve done them. Cardio will make you huff and puff before truly taxing the legs. High rep squats taxes the legs AND make you huff and puff. Cardio is difficult in the sense that you have to tolerate discomfort for a longer time. High rep squats is difficult in the sense that you experience discomfort far quicker and with more intensity than long cardio. Both are tough in their own ways.

Heavy weights is challenging in the sense that you better make sure your form is good or else you’d get hurt.

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I’m not feigning humility. I’m being polite. I have to be, or else I won’t be welcomed here.

I don’t know what to say dude. In a previous post, I was very apologetic about not following your advice. I knew I was gonna irritate some people, but what was I to do? Not post in my training log?

I’m sorry. I really didn’t mean to offend you or anybody.

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Hey Bapoleon,

I never saw the other thread where you asked for advice but it seems like you probably got a lot of good advice already.

You’ve never boxed before so it’s understandable that you have a misunderstanding of what it takes. It is very humbling. You can be a fantastic athlete in another sport/regard but step into a boxing gym and you’ll be out of your domain. Muscle endurance in your calves and quads and abs and shoulders are all important but 20 rep squats won’t help in the slightest. That’s okay. There is no real reason to prepare for boxing before you join a proper gym. You’ll learn everything you need to know once you start boxing and up until then, do whatever makes you happy.

p.s. There is a reason boxers typically have a similar body structure. It’s the same reason why linemen have a similar body structure and sprinters have a similar body structure … it’s the body structure that works best for that sport.

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Here’s my challenge to you, since this discussion will evidently go nowhere:

Do your 3x20 reps squats. I know it’ll be tough, because 20-rep squats suck.

Then on another day, run this conditioning session: 20 seconds of continuous hang muscle snatches or muscle cleans, followed by 10 seconds of squats with a 10lb weight held at arms length. Do that for 6 rounds (3 minutes of work), followed by 1 minute rest. Repeat the whole protocol 11 more times.

Oh, and during the conditioning I listed have someone throw a medium-sized bean bag at your face.

See which one is harder.

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This question of mine carries assumptions you probably are gonna hate, but I gotta ask it…

These folks you trained. How strong or weak did they end up becoming as fighters? Are they the kind of fighters who were so amazingly skilled at fighting that even though they were incredibly weak, they still were competent because of sheer skill alone?

Because that’s not what I’m aiming for, dude.

Imagination rules the world. If I say I know a better way and think I can prove others wrong, it means I know a better way and I can prove others wrong. Just watch this training log.

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I know nothing about boxing but I’d bet there’s some Bantamweight fighters walking this earth that would murder every person on this forum and probably can’t squat 300 :joy:

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Boxing relies so much more on technique to generate power than say wrestling in mma.
A fast “weak” puncher will outbox a slow “strong” puncher most days.

To put some science behind it, the amount of energy in a punch is based off the kinetic energy equation which is KE = (1/2)x mass x velocity^2. This means that doubling the mass (I.e. big musculature) will only double the kinetic energy in your punch but being twice and fast will quadruple your energy.

Yeah, the flat earther who blew himself up in that rocket thought the same thing.

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I don’t think we should give him shit in his own log. I think your actual goals don’t match your stated goals; that’s fine. I hope to see you continue some pursuit of fitness

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Are you asking if all of his students happened to be incredibly weak, but also incredibly naturally talented people? Because I can answer that, based on probability alone - nope.

High rep squats are not a substitute for roadwork. If you want to do high rep squats and do boxing, go for it, but it’s not going to correlate with 8-12 3 minute rounds, keeping your hands up and moving properly.

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31

Best of luck to you sir, if you want to squat then do it.

As someone who is relatively short and ‘stocky’ can squat a ‘heavy’ set of 20 and has good conditioning, I can honestly tell you that weight lifting conditioning is not the same thing as combat (boxing/wresting/mma/jiu-jitsu).
Guys I’ve rolled with in BJJ murder me in mat conditioning, but wouldn’t be able to hold a candle to me during a metcon.
Different beasts. So long as you’ve made your peace with that my friend, squat on

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32

I get the point. Cardio is tougher. I know dude, I know. My stairmill performance went from 6 minutes at # 4 intensity to 16:20 minutes at # 4 intensity. It took months of training to take me there.

Really, when I started squatting heavy, my stairmill performance started suffering. It was a tough decision. I had to ask myself if I was willing to throw away all that cardio progress for the sake of a big squat and start from scratch. I chose the squat… You can probably relate, but it was heartbreaking. But we can’t do everything at once.

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Thanks.

I think it’s just ego. I just wanna be able to squat a lot. It makes me feel badass. I think that’s all it is, to be honest.

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It’s not about toughness, it’s about specificity.

“Mental toughness” is an overrated and misguided factor in sports preparation. Granted, toughness is more relevant to a fighting sport than say, soccer, but at the same time you could be tough as nails but if you haven’t appropriately prepared your body for the specific demands of boxing, you’ll still be getting knocked the fuck out.

Fight sports require, primarily and in order of importance

  • Repeat power ability
  • Glycolytic capacity
  • Aerobic capacity

20 rep squats are not specific to any of those. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel

35

Cardio isn’t tougher. It just takes doing. I think people are just trying to tell you that if you want to own up to what you want, like you did with me earlier, then cool. But trying to justify your squats with the rationale that they’ll increase your boxing endurance is just borderline funny, and it’s arguing with every knowledgeable combat coach on the planet, not just us. Squats don’t need justification - they make you strong and put hair on your chest. They just don’t help with your boxing.

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Anybody can say what they want about that fight but did he just go in there expecting to win on sheer strength? He needed just a tiny little bit of speed to make his punches a tad harder to dodge. Like…I think I actually have better fighting technique than Koklyaev and I’ve been out of the martial arts game for a while now. However, I don’t think 10 years of pretty consistent training just disappears - some of it is ingrained in you, at least.

I mean…I know for a fact I’d make black belt 14 year old me shit himself in the ring just because I’m stronger now than I was back then by a factor of at least three. I hit a lot harder. I’m a lot faster with my striking.

I also still have the training I received under my belt and have been dabbling in getting better at actually sparring with other people/not being afraid to take a hit (rather than doing kata/five-step work and expecting that to save me).

Also, martial arts training + weightlifting > martial arts training OR weightlifting. It’s relatively simple to combine the two (not easy, but quite simple). If you manage to become good at both you’ll beat people who are just as skilled as you in the ring based off pure strength, but the martial arts background has to be there first.

Moreso, idk about the whole 20-rep squats thing. I feel like if you’re light enough they’ll help you run faster for longer periods of time because that was my experience with running high-rep squat programs for months on end (note: if you’re light enough) but training actual cardio is better for that purpose too. Squats are for strength, which is helpful in other regards when fighting, but I wouldn’t go so far as to classify 20-rep squats as an exercise in boxing endurance.

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38

Okay.

My squatting will not help my boxing. My squatting will help in many ways, but not boxing.

Done.

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39

But boxing will still help my 20 rep squats, right? RIGHT??

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40

Would 200 rep squats help his boxing?